Would you be worried? Should I do something about it?

[user1480366912]

One of the mummies I know has got drinking problem... Well we all can see it but she thinks that everything is ok. She would have 2 or 3 glasses of wine nearly every day and get extremely drunk when we go out (I mean being sick in the restaurant and being asked to leave someone's house drunk). As we are a part of a bigger group I am happy to ignore her and focus on talking to the others but it recently started to impact on her kids... She continued to drink when she was pregnant and when her ds2 was born and only 1 day old they took him to the pub to celebrate with wine and dinner. Within few months of him being born she would text is few time asking for help as he was running a high fever but because they both had a drink, they couldn't drive to the hospital. Few time she would also ask if someone can come in and look after the baby as they had a "stomach flu"...
I know that social services have more pressing cases, and they look like a completely reasonable parents (big house, new car, nice middle class area) but I can see a lot of neglect when you look past the surface.
Would you report them? I am not close enough with them to just have a chat...

[shinynewusername]

Assuming this thread is for real..

There are two issues with your friend, from what you have written. Firstly does she have a drink problem? Yes - it sounds like her drinking is not fully within her control.

Secondly, is it so bad that SS need to intervene to protect her DC? Not from what you have told us so far. She and DP did the responsible thing by not driving their DC to hospital if they had had too much to drink - something that could happen to any non-teetotaller. You mention neglect under the surface but it all sounds a bit vague.

You will get a hard time on here because it is too close to home for most MNetters, who are not keen on naice middle class mothers being judged for their wine habits. You are right to be concerned about her drinking, but reporting her to SS for not drink-driving does sound an overreaction. On the other hand, children of alcoholics - including naice middle class ones - can suffer all sorts of emotional abuse and neglect. So it sounds as if you should be reaching out to her, at the very least.

[PansyGiraffe]

it recently started to impact on her kids
I can see a lot of neglect when you look past the surface.

You say you're not close to her. Is this impact and neglect more than what you've described above? If someone who is not close to the family can see "a lot of neglect" that is concerning. For starters it's not clear from what you say whether she was saying, "please drive us to the hospital" or "please take him to the hospital as a responsible adult, we're too drunk and will stay here to avoid being found out".

SS don't have an on[remove the child]/off[do sod all] switch. Even if there are failings in practice, it may be a way of accessing other agency help. Even if you don't think SS will do anything - that's not your call. Other people may have vague unease as well and not said anything. Is the older child at school? Could you speak to the head confidentially? Health visitor?

Ultimately, if you really believe that two children are being neglected you should not sit on your hands. If you're worried, your duty is to report, not be the judge.

[FlyingElbows]

Op this is mumsnet and on mumsnet they don't like it if you point out that three bottles a night is a drinking problem. As long as it's naice middle class wine you can be shit faced 24/7 in mumsnet land and it's all just such fun and giggles. In the real world you're not bu to be concerned that your friend may have a drink problem. You won't find much support here though.

[TheTroutofNoCraic]

The point is not a 'mumsnet don't like being told they can't get snattered' one, but rather the blatant inconsistencies with OP's 'story'.
OP claims the mum in question is not close enough to have a heart-to-heart with but is close enough to phone/text them to take her ill baby to hospital WITHOUT HER because she's 'too drunk'.
Reeks of BS.

[PresidentOliviaMumsnet]

Many thanks for those who have taken the time to report this thread.
We have no reason to suspect that the OP is not genuine but we would advise anyone who is facing problems with alcohols to seek RL help

[[https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-support-services]].

We do advise all our members to be aware that not everyone on t'internet is who they say they are, and that, although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.

Thanks as ever
MNHQ

[pasbeaucoupdegendarme]

I think you're being given a rough time, OP. I like a drink, but drinking regularly behind a point where you can care for your children to the best of your ability is not on.

When teaching in the private sector I saw a few instances of parents (mothers, in fact) who had drink problems and it was hard to watch and hard to intervene with.

I think what you're describing does not warrant ss but may warrant a mention to the cpo and the dc's school.

[SpiritedLondon]

Maybe I could wade in here having worked in child protection for s number of years ( the points are valid whether this is genuine or not) You do not have to be certain that abuse is happening to report someone to SS. Children have died on the basis that people were not certain and didn't want to interfere. If you have witnessed behaviour that you consider concerning then it is entirely valid to report it. Drinking throughout pregnancy is not " illegal" as such but certainly can be a contributing factor towards serious permanent impairment in children. It may be that the SS assess your information and find that it falls below their threshold for intervention but that information will be recorded and if somewhere down the line someone else raises a concern then your info can be another piece of the jigsaw used to assist the professionals in their decision making. You cannot judge someone based on your own experiences of course so just because someone here was reported and there was no case to answer does not mean that your friend does not have a case to answer. Drug and alcohol abuse are one of the most common contributing factors to child abuse and neglect along with mental health problems and domestic abuse so you are not wrong to worry about it.

[RebelRogue]

And it's not 3 bottles at night, it's 2-3 glasses.

[user1480061930]

Flipping SS...report report report !!!!!

[user1477282676]

"one of the Mummies I know"

FFS OP she's a WOMAN to you. Not a Mummy. She's only Mummy to her child.

Stop defining her by her parenthood.

[Sweets101]

2-3 glasses a night is a drink problem
Drinking during pregnancy isn't ok, i'my sure the 'rules' have changed recently from minimum amounts per week to 0
Being too drunk too care for a young baby who needs to go to the hospital/has a high temp is not ok, especially if it isn't a one off
These things full under the radar too often because people don't want to get 'involved'
Being 'middle class' does allow initial warning signs to sometimes fall under the radar
OP you are concerned, report it.

[Sweets101]

Stop defining her by her parenthood.
If she wasn't a parent it wouldn't be a problem as she wouldn't have DC dependant upon her. If the DC have a father who is present and responsible it might not be a problem as there would be a responsible adult present to assess the DC's need and seek medical attention independent of 'friends' needing to assess due to being too drunk to provide the DC with that careven directly.

[Sweets101]

OP claims the mum in question is not close enough to have a heart-to-heart with but is close enough to phone/text them to take her ill baby to hospital WITHOUT HER because she's 'too drunk'.

Yes because alcoholics never behave irrationally

[minisausage]

Why is everyone being horrid to the OP? I don't get it, can't do right for doing wrong. She's asking for advice.
YADNBU. There's no harm reporting it they may offer her support. They don't wade in and take the kids

[Badcat666]

I agree, why is everyone having a go at the OP?

Maybe some of the ppl being nasty to the OP have just drained their glass for the night and popped the cork in to bottle to start again tomorrow and feel a bit annoyed that another person in the world thinks 2-3 glasses a night is a bit wrong when you have small children.

Well is is bloody wrong! So is drinking when you are pregnant. So is taking a tiny newborn baby to a pub to eat AND drink booze. So is having both parents being unable to take a baby to A&E because they have been drinking.

An excellent post SpiritedLondon, OP, follow SpiritedLondon's advice!!

(also from reading the 1st post it sounds like the person in question has done a round robin text asking for help rather than ask the OP specifically)

[awayinamazda]

Bluntness - yes, I'm saying that if ur responsible for a child at the time, it shouldn't be the case that u r too drunk to even turn up as a passe her at a &e with them (because if ur that drunk u were not really able to care for them). I don't think that's controversial!
If u have to get really drunk, get childcare (and do it where ur kids don't have to watch). If u don't have childcare, don't get so drunk u can't leave the house.

[MadHattersWineParty]

OP didn't say they were too drunk to present at A&E just that they'd had a drink- so presumably couldn't drive.

Are you seriously never supposed to have a glass of wine or two in 18 years of child-rearing just in case you may have to drive to A&E? Asking someone to drive them is the sensible option surely?

Anyway you don't sound like you're friends with her at all, OP. if she exists

[5to2]

I wouldn't describe 2-3 glasses of wine a day as a drink problem

People on MN are in such denial about alcohol! It bloody well is a problem if someone is drinking that much.

Not necessarily one which means you'd be unable to function or worthy of reporting to SS, per se, but certainly way too much. Could be as much as 7 units a night - that's getting on for 50 a week.

[GrabtharsHammer]

Op, I can see where you're coming from. I'm an alcoholic, and I got help when it got to the point where I was having a bottle of wine at lunchtime, doing the school run (walking!) and then having another bottle in the evening.

I go to a fantastic support group and the majority of us fit the same demographic. Late 30s to early 40s, SAHM, middle class, professional DHs, kids at school.

We range from those who drink a bottle every other night and want to stop, to those who start the day with a vodka.

Social services shouldn't be your first point of call but please do signpost her towards Change Grow Live or a similar service.

She may not be at the point where the consequences outweigh the benefits, but she might be and you could be the nudge that she needs. But please don't be judgy, it's ridiculously common. All the 'wine oclock','is it too early for gin' culture doesn't help.

[Schmoozer]

Ridiculous OP bashing here !! OP listen to SpiritedLondon, a rare drop of sense of this thread ! Well done you for raising the question, it certainly gives an interesting insight to some MNetters
.....wow.

[MsJudgemental]

If 2-3 glasses of wine a day is outrageous then most of Western Europe are raging alcoholics. Get real- there's a world of difference between 2 glasses and 2 bottles. What might put you over the limit to drive does not make you incapable of functioning in your own home. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone with a child shouldn't be having a glass of wine with dinner?

[Schmoozer]

Nice example of minimising from MsJ
OP isn't saying a glass of wine with dinner, whilst child in house .....

Those of you drinking 2- 3 glasses per day, may be worth doing one week of checking your units
www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/alcohol-units.aspx
It's quite easy to fall into unhealthy drinking levels and families and society and NHS pay the price.

[awayinamazda]

Madhatter - yes the OP DID say exactly that - that they did not just want a lift, they wanted someone to take the child for them - it was in her second post!