To be left feeling uncomfortable about this conversation.

[DeleteOrDecay]

As I was putting dc in the car after picking up the eldest from nursery, I noticed one of the parents drive past in their car. Shortly after one of the grandparents of one of the children in dd's class, who I've chatted to briefly before, walked past and started talking to me. She mentioned the car which had just driven past the school, and how the child in the back wasn't strapped in and she knew this because he was 'leaning forward'.

She then went on to say that 'those asians get away with it don't they, not like us'. I was a bit by this, and was busy getting dc strapped in so I kind of just made an 'mmm' sound and then she left. But it's left me feeling a bit uncomfortable and now I feel like I don't really want to talk to this grandparent anymore as we clearly have differing views. I didn't see whether the child in the back was strapped in or not but I don't see how race/where someone comes from was relevant. Aibu to feel uncomfortable about this brief encounter?

[justicewomen]

oh while I was typing Susan said the same thing as me but much more concisely

[BertrandRussell]

Well, what normally happens is "white flight". White people don't the fact that there are immigrants moving into their areas and as soon as they can, they move out. Which means that the vacuum is filled by more immigrant families, who tend to be poor and disadvantaged. Poverty is the greatest indicator of academic underachievement. So the % of poor children in the local school goes up, and sometimes that means attainment goes down. So more White British families move out- and the self fulfilling prophesy comes about. However, often people don't recognize povety and disadvantage as the issues, they think it's language, or just simply "bloody pakis". And the schools become demoralized, can't attract good teachers- and the whole depressing cycle continues. That's my opinion. What's yours?

[WindPowerRanger]

The 'fault' lies with successive governments who have shrieked Racist! or Bigot! At anyone who voiced these concerns.

I don't remember this happening, except for Gordon Broon and the woman in Doncaster. In fact, the whole narrative of indigenous Britons being stigmatised, ignored, overlooked and disadvantaged is fanciful.

A very useful fancy though, if you are a resentful native. Everyone else will look at the lives of ethnic minorities and wonder where are all the marvellous unfair advantages they are said to be enjoying.

[Deadsouls]

Don't talk to her then! You're not obliged to. Just keep your distance

[mrscarrotironfoundersson]

I think you've a point, certainly in terms of poverty and academic achievement. Thing is, I don't think Ofsted would write a report detailing the immigration status for a school or area surrounding it, they report on facts not feelings.


Will watch the debate with interest, peace and love people. Peace and love.

[MorrisZapp]

I can't help wondering if some posters have any grasp of social history at all. The UK has changed rapidly just in the last two generations. My pleasant, friendly grandmother made comments which are totally unacceptable now as we no longer live in the world that she grew up in.
How is the existence of history 'ageist'?

[MorrisZapp]

There was a thread recently about problems amongst (if I remember correctly) Indian origin families and mental health problems. Posters were angry that local HCPs were unaware of cultural sensitivities which meant that mental illness was stigmatised in some cultures.

The result was a failure of that community to engage with services, with poor outcomes for those with mh problems.

How can cultural sensitivity be a thing if All Humans Are The Same. No sensitivity needed surely.

[BertrandRussell]

But what she said was racist. And if you say racist things, that makes you a racist, surely?

[SenseiWoo]

Doesn't seem so fanciful in many post-Industrial areas of the UK, does it?

It may not seem fanciful, but it still is. Speaking as a black person who is not swimming in lovely taxpayer money and other racially-based perks. And who spends a lot of time with relatives in post-industrial areas of the UK. We're all being shat on.

[BertrandRussell]

"This what they think, they believe- and, tbf, what my friend who withdrew her DC from a primary increasingly dominated by newly arrived non-English speaking DC might've thought had she not been in position to use her money to re-advantage her DC."

So are we doing the post fact thing again?

[WouldHave]

Draylon, why do you keep harping on about something that happened 9 years ago and insisting that that is evidence that the same thing is happening in several schools now?

As for your "You really don't have to lecture me about 'How schools and OFSTED work'. You just stating it doesn't make it so": that's a trifle rich, given that you specifically asked me whether I had experience of Ofsted. Of course me stating anything doesn't make it so, but perhaps you could acknowledge that, unless you have evidence that what I say is untrue, it's a bit off to suggest that I'm making it up just because the facts don't support your case.

[WouldHave]

Older people never thought racism was acceptable - They were not aware they were being racist at all.

Still ageist and untrue. My 94 year old father is perfectly aware of what is and is not racist.

How could anyone say "those asians get away with it don't they, not like us" and not be aware that they are being racist (unless of course they have some form of cognitive deficit)? It's a clear statement that members of a certain race habitually disobey the law and get away with it. The individual concerned must know she actually has no evidence for that statement. Therefore she knows she is attributing criminal tendencies to people purely on the basis of their race.

[WLF46]

You shouldn't judge her. If you do, you are just as bad as her. At least she's just generalising about a race as a whole, you are making judgements about her personally.

Remember, racists are people too!

[WLF46]

But seriously, the best way to deal with it is engaging her in conversation and have a reasonable discussion. You might change her mind, you might not, at least you'll have tried.

[DaphneCanDoBetterThanFred]

I will tell my husband immediately that he can get away with anything then, he'll be chuffed
What's very fucking frustrating to me is that "Asian" is a pretty big group. My husband is Asian. DCs and I follow some parts of his religion, cook the food of his country.
Bonus points if you can correctly tell me his nationality, religion, the food he eats and the colour of his skin, and whether he turns up on time for appointments. Without advance searching me, of course. Can you?

That's what makes the woman's comment racist. Othering people with no idea of who they actually are

[BertrandRussell]

"You shouldn't judge her. If you do, you are just as bad as her. At least she's just generalising about a race as a whole, you are making judgements about her personally"

So calling a racist a racist is as bad as being a racist?Seriously?

God, I hate this bloody post-fact world.

[DaphneCanDoBetterThanFred]

Bertrand deep breath, read the post immediately below that one, for I believe WLF was being sarcastic

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

By the time I arrived at work I would have forgotten the conversation tbh.
Talk to whomever you wish.

[Quintessing]

What a strange thing to happen!

[Greengoddess12]

hate oh dear that's pretty personal and as much as I hate racists I utterly detest those unable to debate without swearing and abuse.

you must be very immature.

Op as I said uothread she sounds stupid but my main worry would be it escalating into an unpleasant slanting match in front of small children if you antagonise her.

[HateSummer]

Don't worry, I utterly detest patronising twats, so no lost feelings.

[WouldHave]

Draylon, you asked whether I had read an Ofsted report recently, I confirmed that I had and went on to say that I had had involvement in Ofsted inspections, you for some reason tried to tell me I shouldn't have done so. I am allowed to do that without you specifically asking me about it, you know.

As I haven't asserted that you don't know how Ofsted works, I don't understand why you might think I was miffed about that. If I was pissed off about anything, it was your attempt to tell me what I could or could not post.

The Ofsted issue arises from the statement "There are schools where native born DC are stuck in the corner with a book whilst the teachers, conscious of their OFSTED report, give more time to the non-English speaking immigrant child. School xxx (or whatever you called it) might have a high immigrant population with no issues, but that woman will have received sufficient 'reinforcement' of her view to be able to state what she did". We've established that the only evidence you can cite in relation to this assertion is one incident nine years ago. The point you seem unwilling to acknowledge is that schools whose staff know what they're doing wouldn't act this way now because it wouldn't help them with Ofsted, rather the reverse.