M&S returns - was I being unreasonable?

[ChickenTinkiiev]

I bought some pyjamas from M&S for DS (aged 3) 5 weeks ago. Worn (indoors, as pyjamas tend to be) several times and washed according to instructions. Noticed a small hole had worn through one knee yesterday. Took them back with the receipt to the store, thinking pyjamas should surely last more than 5 weeks and asked for a credit note.

I was told that this could not possibly be a manufacturing fault as the hole was not along a seam, and so they could not send it back and there was nothing that could be done. Another assistant joined in and agreed with her.

I asked to speak to a manager. While waiting for a manager, the assistants had gone behind a door next to the desk and I heard one say to the other (loudly enough that I suspect she wanted me to hear) "that woman at the desk, she's definitely cut a hole in those trousers".

DH joined me at this point. Attitude of staff changes. Not sure if it is relevant but he is white (and male, obviously) and I am not; I only mention it as it's not the first time I am treated like crap alone and then suddenly better when he arrives.

The manager arrived and authorised a refund, saying send it back as a manufacturing fault. Assistant refunded me with cats bum face. I told quietly her as I was leaving that I had heard them talking; she denied everything.

I hate conflict and feel really shaken now. AIBU to have taken them back? Should I just have binned them and accepted that M&S clothes are crap quality and don't last longer than 5 weeks of occasional indoor use?

And AIBU to feel upset about being accused of deliberately damaging the clothes and lying? I know I shouldn't care what strangers think of me but it's really upset me.

[PlumsGalore]

John, what exactly is racist here?

The OP had shit service from M&S, so have several other posters. I too have had a similar experience when I returned a dress where the fabric of the dress appeared to have a colour flaw, not even worn. M&S accused me of washing it wrong and said they would have to refer it higher for inspection before considering a refund.

It was fk all to do with race.

[PikachuSayBoo]

M&s quality is going down the toilet. Same for next.

They're using thinner, cheaper quality fabrics and keeping the price the same. I often buybtne same style of joggers from m&s for dog walking. Ive got one pair from eight years ago going strong. More recent pairs are lucky if they last a year. The trousers are noticeably shitter most years.

Clothing isn't even Primark quality these days but 3x the price. And they can't understand why people aren't buying clothes there and they're having to close shops. They ought to make me CEO because it's blindingly obvious to anyone who shops there.

[LurkingHusband]

M&S are plummeting downhill ... 3/4 years ago I was returning an item where a button had broken after 2 weeks. When I presented it to the assistant at the customer service desk, to my amazement she ferreted around in the seams, and pulled out a plastic bag with spare buttons in it. She didn't say a word, but the look on her face was "what the fuck are you complaining about - we put in spare buttons". I think I annoyed her when I replied "That's nice. Could you refund to my card please ?". She then went on to make a big thing that they were only refunding because of their 28-day policy, and not because the garment was faulty as "buttons aren't covered". I think I annoyed her even more when I replied - loudly - that with quality like that I wasn't surprised.

Needless to say M&S is now off our list of shops.

Sorry to say, but I really can't see big businesses like M&S surviving the next 10 years.

Actually, MrsLH noted an interesting fact with all the businesses that have gone under in the past few years. The first sign was it was harder and harder to get around in a wheelchair, as they piled more and more shit on middle of aisles displays. So on that basis alone, M&S are not long for this world.

[PickAChew]

The aisle clutter is phenomenal. I complained 10 years ago when trying to get through a busy store to get to the car park with a baby in a buggy and a bouncy, hyperactive toddler to find ourselves having to negotiate our way past stacks of fucking champagne flutes in the middle of the already gridlocked and convoluted aisles.

Their terse response was that the store layout met accessibility and safety standards. They have since modified that store to have some straight lines in it, but I still need a walk around John Lewis to calm my nerves after a visit to their Newcastle store.

[Marbleheadjohnson]

Almost same thing happened to me, except hole was on a seam. They insisted it had been worn (I tried it on once in my bedroom and discovered massive hole) assistant was so unbelievably rude. Manager refunded me and apologised. I still complained in writing because the rudeness was excessive. I got an apology and a voucher back, I spent that in the food hall and have avoided shitty m&s ever since.

[LurkingHusband]

and have avoided shitty m&s ever since

... and so it begins

[allmycats]

I think that the quality at M and S is not very good at all. I purchased a pair of 100% cotton pyjamas from them at the end of August and they are already very faded and 'rubbed'. Similar ones that I have had from Primark ,
also 100% cotton are still going well a couple of years down the line.

[confuugled1]

I had some shorts from m&s a few years ago that started to disintegrate the first time I wore them...
Which became very embarrassing as the day wore on . I'd gone to watch a local cricket match with dp and his friends (the sort you laze around on picnic blankets eating a picnic rather than sitting in seats) and the fabric had something wrong with it - if you held a bit tight in your fingers you could poke another finger straight through it. Or if you rolled over and there was the slightest bit of tautness (as there the ds to be!) it just ripped.

It was the first and only cricket match I've ever been to - I left half way through to make an emergency dash to the shops to get a new pair of shorts as I was worried if I'd left it much longer I'd have been left with a waistband (that had been reinforced!) and not much else...

Even then I had problems getting money back on the basis I must have done something to them because it wasn't possible for them to have been bought like that because they wouldn't sell stuff that was made of disintegrating fabric

I then asks the lady to tug the fabric tight as she thought would be reasonable as she didn't believe me - and the whole thing ripped in half so she finally realised that I was telling the truth and I got my money back. No apology or toke £5 voucher for the fact that I'd gone out for the day in shorts that could have fallen to pieces during the day, leaving me in a very tricky predicament though...

[bastardlyandmutley]

My husband returned a pair of shoes that he had worn twice because the heel had worn down and they literally looked knackered. The woman on the M&S Customer Services Desk tried to tell us that the reason they looked wrecked was because we had had a lot of rain and you weren't supposed to wear the shoes in the rain. They were leather brogues which he incidently hadn't worn in the rain. I was incredulous at being told this and asked her what footwear he should wear with a suit in the rain, wellies? She quipped how I shouldn't talk myself out of a refund and ought to quit while I was ahead. Rude cow.

[ChickenTinkiiev]

Yes why do they need to be so RUDE? Do they get trained to be like that? Because it's clearly not just the odd person having a bad day.

The woman just kept arguing and arguing with me, trying to prove a point. You'd have thought the refund was coming directly out of her own salary. Maybe it does? That would explain their attitude.

She also refunded me for the wrong item, so only £12 instead of £26. Luckily I checked the receipt and pointed it out to her. She kept on arguing until she finally realised she'd messed it up, then refunded me the extra £14 with a scowl and no apology. I would have put it down to an innocent mistake usually but at the end of everything else, it was just the shitty icing on the cake of incompetence.

Thanks for the Resolver link upthread, I've used that now.

[counterpoint]

Yes, whatever happened to 'the customer is always right' policy?

If they're using dodgy, child-slave abusing manufacturers in Turkey, then surely the materials/fabrics are likely to be dodgy too.

www.independent.co.uk/news/child-labour-sweatshops-refugees-marks-and-spencer-panorama-clothes-sold-in-uk-britain-british-high-a7376706.html

[Mynestisfullofempty]

123MothergotafleA "And their shoes are beyond awful. I used to be able to tolerate their foot glove ones years ago, but not a single shoe currently in stock would I wear."

The quality of the Footglove range plummeted a couple of years ago. I was so disappointed because they used to be unbelievably comfortable and I thought I would always buy them. I didn't count on them changing beyond recognition, obviously they are getting them made much more cheaply nowadays to maximise profit, but I assume a lot of customers will have been forced to buy elsewhere, so sales must have gone down.

[ChickenTinkiiev]

OK, I got this reply. I appreciate the speed of response and also that it seems to have been written by an actual person rather than a customer servicebot. It irks me that she is "confident it wasn't intentional" - powerful distance mind-reading skills there - but at least she acknowledges that there was a clear fault.

I noticed that she says that staff have to "justify the fault in the products" and wonder if this is where the excessively draconian behaviour comes from. i.e. maybe staff are personally penalised if they take back a return for a fault that doesn't meet M&S's incredibly high crapness threshold. If so this is really awful behaviour on M&S's part and no wonder the staff seem so miserable.


"Hello xxxx

I appreciate you getting in touch with us about the recent experience you've had in our Trafford Centre store. I'm sorry that there was so much trouble with obtaining a refund for the pyjamas, I can understand the frustration as there was a clear quality fault.

I've let the Store Management team know about what's happened here, they'll be able to discuss this further with their staff members to ensure that they're being helpful and professional to customers at all times.

The process for obtaining a refund for faulty products is for a staff member to justify the fault in the products. If they do justify the fault, a full refund will be issued for the price paid, in full. So I'm glad you did receive the full refund of £26 in the end, with the fault justified too. The comments made will then be passed over to the Suppliers who will look into this further. They'll do a thorough investigation to make sure changes will be made to the pyjamas, to ensure the holes don't occur again.

Staff members in store should be professional at all times, and at no point speak about customers behind their backs at all. This is something that will be taken further internally, and discussed amongst themselves to ensure this doesn't happen again. The Store Management team will be able to ensure that extra training and support, where needed, is offered to staff members to improve the overall service in store.

I'm sorry you were made to feel uncomfortable, and I'm confident it wasn't intentional by the staff members but I appreciate why you were left feeling let down by the service. This has been highlighted to the Management team, who will offer those staff members extra support to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Thanks for the e-mail, and I hope you have a great week.
Kind regards

xxxxxxxxx
Retail Customer Services
Your M&S Customer Service"

I'm minded to just let it go now.

[ChickenTinkiiev]

Oh and to obviously take my business elsewhere in future.

[HazelBite]

I sent Ds a link to some jewellery sets on M&S online meaning him to pick one for my Birthday. Not knowing what to pick he bought all three and I received them. They were necklace and earring sets all in sealed bags. I contacted M& S online told them what had happened and that I didn't want all three, could I take two of them to my local store for exchange, they told me what to do so off I go with receipt and goods to local M& S.
I picked some gloves (greater cost than the jewellery sets) and went to customer services, told them what had happened.
The assistant said nothing and took the jewellery out of the sealed bags (she had to rip them open, examines them and says "you can't return earrings it is against store policy as you might have worn them" I was incredulous and said "how can I have worn them if up to when you ripped the bag open they were in a sealed bag, as supplied from the warehouse?"
Long story short she argued persistently that I could have worn them and that they weren't in a bag now, "No" say's I "Because YOU took them out of the sealed bag!"
As the argument went on I was getting louder and louder and she told me if I was going to shout she wouldn't talk to me!
I then asked to see her manager "They're not here 'cos its Sunday" to which I reply "If I have to leave here without getting this matter resolved I will go to trading standards tomorrow and write to head office" and at that point I asked for her full name etc.
She stomped off and 25 minutes later I saw a young man who accepted the exchange after I had to explain everything again to him.

I don't shop at my local store any more, they have lost a previously good and loyal customer.

[Saucery]

I think that's an adequate reply really. Up to you whether you shop there again. I probably wouldn't but I do hold a good Shop Grudge.

[MickleTonster]

It's a shame they can't see this thread really- might prompt a shift in attitudes!

[KatoPotato]

I had a very similar experience when I noticed some baby vests had shrunk considerably after a few washes. I had one still as yet unworn or washed and compared them and the shrinkage was terrible.

I got a lot of cheek and huffing, accused me of boil washing them or tumble drying them.

I said I followed the instructions and washed them at 40 degrees, the manager snatched them off me and said 'WOOL! wash as WOOL!' 'No, it says 40' I said.

'Wee lines! the wee lines under it mean WOOL!' I said they were baby vests, sold as easy care.

Much huffing and puffing later I got a refund, but I've never bought from there again

[ILostItInTheEarlyNineties]

Hmm a lot of flowery corporate speak in there! It's a bit vague about whether any action will be taken and I'm very sceptical about the assurance that they will make sure changes are made to the pyjamas ?
but I hope they do improve them!

There's a sorry in there as well which is something.

[Didijustgetwinkpointshitcanned]

I like the psychic abilities going on in that reply.

I agree that the justifying the fault is where it comes from. The staff member will get told off if it's not a good enough reason (in managements eyes) and so they are passing on the aggro to the customer by arguing it as much as possible to avoid getting bitched at themselves. It's not right or fair.

[ChickenTinkiiev]

Yeah it's good enough for me. I'm kind of the opinion of if they're sorry, they're sorry; if not, nothing I say is going to make a difference so I won't waste any more time trying to improve their service for them. They've got the information now, it's been passed on to the store, hopefully someone will act on it, but if not, oh well.

Saucery I also like to nurse a good Shop Grudge. In this case though it's more that the quality has just become so shoddy and the (in-store) customer service so terrible that I don't want to risk ending up in the same situation in future.

Thanks again everyone for input, encouragement and sharing tales of woe

[ChickenTinkiiev]

Sorry cross-post didijust - yes it does seem to highlight where the problem is and why the staff are so dogged about not giving refunds unless it meets a narrow definition of an "acceptable" fault.

[LurkingHusband]

The process for obtaining a refund for faulty products is for a staff member to justify the fault in the products

er, no. The process for obtaining a refund is to follow the law as set out in the Consumer Rights Act.

Nothing is guaranteed to sent me from mild-mannered (?) to full on Victor Meldrew mode faster than a company trying to pretend their procedures trump the law.

[RooDaisy]

chicken glad they replied quickly, I've never complained to M&S directly but when I complained to Debenhams (also at the TC), they passed the info on to the store and someone from the store called me and arranged vouchers to be issued.
Did you ask for a personal apology?

Like a PP said, maybe it's not worth any more of your time. They have apologised, hopefully the staff will get a bollocking and you never have to go there again.

[RooDaisy]

Sorry chicken just saw you are done with them.