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AIBU?

To feel very uncomfortable about this Guardian article?

652 replies

KingscoteStaff · 05/11/2016 08:41

Front page of the 'Family' section. A grandfather talking about his 21 yo granddaughter who has just committed suicide.

It just doesn't feel real. Could it be some sort of exercise in writing the most unsympathetic narrator ever?

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CockacidalManiac · 05/11/2016 09:59

It reads like a Will Self parody

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iPost · 05/11/2016 09:59

I think I am reading it with a different lens.

For more than 20 years, as part of the extended family, I was party to just how deep the knife of MIL's mental illness cut those around her.

As one of those who cared for her I bled alongside those who loved her most.

It's right and proper that the person with the mental illness is considered the protagonist of their life. But I saw the extent to which everybody else can be relegated to mere bit players in the movie of MIL's self destruction. And I noted that, according to the observers, the cost to us was supposed to be borne, absorbed and moved on from. It got to the point where I started to wonder if, in our prescribed role as the family of a very unwell woman, we somehow ceased to exist as real, live people in our own right.

It can also be hard to unpick which part of somebody is the mental illness ends and which part is the real personality/character. Especially in the case of people who have shown signs of being unwell since childhood. You can love somebody, know they are ill, but still utterly hate the way they treat you and the people you love. When their behaviour has significant impact, you can be lose struggle to work out where illness ends and the "real" person begins. Over time, worn down by the relentless nature of the situation, you can end up loving and loathing somebody simultaneously.

I can read the frustration, attempt to make sense and pain in what he wrote. I suppose to others it looks emotionally removed, distanced and devoid of any feelings for the person he is talking about. But I think I sound like that too. It became a survival tactic. Pressing down the huge feelings as I watched people I loved being steam rollered, and then flattened, by the ramifications of trying to save a mentally ill person from their symptoms. While the legal aspects of medical ethics limit your ability to do so. All while the world and its mother looks at you aghast, for failing to "just DO something!"

Even now MIL is several years dead I press the feelings down. Because if I don't I'll have to look at the full extent of what her illness did to all of us as individuals and as a group. And I don't think I'll cope well with the tsunami of feeling if released.

I don't judge him. It can be a life changing, horrible, relentless, losing battle. One you can't opt out of. One that can lead you to learn that you may have been a hero in your imagination, when everything was theoretical. But when therory became practice, you find you have ever so human feet of clay to contend with.

Feet of clay the rest of the world won't forgive. Because the bit players tend to viewed as two distinct types characters.

The damn near saint like, who sacrifice without complaint and are tragic/strong figures worthy of praise that can never begin to compensate for all their pain.

Or the heartless villains, who are bad mannered and selfish. Because they to see themselves and those they love as having been the unwilling, forgotten, diminished "collateral damage" of somebody who was patently ill, but still the real, live person still lobbing new bombs into the heart of the family, before they'd stopped bleeding from the last round of shrapnel.

If we are going to have successful "care in the community" I think the general public is going to have to get its head around the concept that the family left to do the heavey lifting are real people. Flawed like everybody else. In sometimes exhausting and traumatic circumstances. For decades. With both hands tied behind their backs in terms of getting the degree of oversight and care required. While being castigated for not doing enough, or being enough.

People can feel good about themselves looking down their noses at this man if they so wish. But all that will do is help cement in place the extensive human tragedy that occurs daily. Whereby mentally ill people, and their families, are left to cope with the impossible, and then roundly critised when it leaves them scarred, stunned, bowed and damn near broken by the time the ill person has died due to a lack of much needed, professional care and supervision.

Judge me too if you like. I lost chunks of who I was caring for MIL. Possibly the biggest loss was the illusion that not only was I not perfect, as it turns out, I am deeply flawed. Just like the writer of the piece.

I didn't used to be this flawed. It's just one aspect of being the collateral damage that many societies are still a tad too keen to sweep under the carpet. Cos it's cheaper this way.

I see a bereaved grandfather, trying to cope with a particularly complicated form of grief. I am not surprised if he is perceived as something else. He can come sit on my bench. He won't lack company. There's thousands of us. Who are very used to millions of fingers being pointed at their outrageous, contemptible lack. Our "prize" for years of bumbling around in the dark. Doing our "not good enough" best to deal with what we were left to deal with, without the necessary tools, guidance, support and funding.

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Alorsmum · 05/11/2016 09:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crashdoll · 05/11/2016 10:01

As someone who lost a loved one to suicide after several years of very poor mental health, this article is offensive and highlights the stigma around mental illness and suicide. It's not always ok to publish things like this. Did he love her? It doesn't come across like he did. He couldn't manage to find much nice to say about her. Disgusting man who should have kept his opinions out of the national press. :(

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KingscoteStaff · 05/11/2016 10:01

That's what I thought - a parody, albeit a strange one. Is he a writer? Would it have read better as an interview?

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pinkiponk · 05/11/2016 10:02

He's used more complicated words when an easier one would've done and actually made it easier to read and understand. He's shoe horned in words that don't quite make sense- it does smack of someone looking in at a thesaurus and using synonyms regardless if they fit the sentence. Carbohydrates instead of food, for example.

I also don't think he gets mh- she wasn't doing it just to piss everyone off. She was having a battle. I also think he's written about some personal stuff, it's probably a bit disrespectful to divulge intimate details now she's dead.

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SandunesAndRainclouds · 05/11/2016 10:03

I have been a part of a family dealing with severe Mental Health illness. I couldn't read the whole thing.

I never blamed my relative for the process that she went through, including suicide. He seems to blame his granddaughter for what happened, like she had a conscious choice to be sad, unhappy, unable to see light in her dark days.

It just isn't like that.

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CockacidalManiac · 05/11/2016 10:03

As someone who lost a loved one to suicide after several years of very poor mental health, this article is offensive and highlights the stigma around mental illness and suicide. It's not always ok to publish things like this. Did he love her? It doesn't come across like he did. He couldn't manage to find much nice to say about her. Disgusting man who should have kept his opinions out of the national press.

I agree. As someone who experiences frequent suicidal thoughts and ideation, I found his callousness triggering. I wish I'd never read it.

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KondosSecretJunkRoom · 05/11/2016 10:07

iPost Thanks for writing that. It was everything I didn't have the guts to say.

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Whensmyturn · 05/11/2016 10:09

IPost you have said it all very eloquently! Unfortunately those people who haven't experienced it won't understand. Public health, the government need to provide more help for families coping and support those families.

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rainyinnovember · 05/11/2016 10:10

I think iPost, that was a moving and exceptionally well written post.

Thank you for sharing.

I am uncomfortable with the naming and shaming element of this article, though.

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Armadillostoes · 05/11/2016 10:10

I found it heart-breaking to read. I know from personal experience how hard it is to love someone with mental health problems which no amount of professional intervention seems to be helping. And it is really hard sometimes knowing where the illness ends and their personality begins. You want to believe that your loved one is still in there somewhere, and they are. And yet some of the things which they say and do aren't THEM. Filtering out what is the illness and what is still a authentic expression of the person you love is agonising and confusing.

It is also tough hearing from professionals that they have the capacity to make choices. I have found a myself thinking, well either the professionals are just wrong or they do have capacity and they are choosing to do this to us all. Rationally, I know it is much, much more complex than that. But in the haze of pain that is hard to see/hold on to.

And it is hard to be on the receiving end when someone wants their autonomy respected and also wants carte blanche to do/say whatever they feel the need to, regardless of the impact.

Basically, having mental health problems is Hell, loving someone with mental health problems can sometimes be a different kind of Hell. I wouldn't rush to judge the author of this article for his feelings after the road he walked.

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KingscoteStaff · 05/11/2016 10:16

I think the Grauniad would be better paying iPost to write for them, tbh.

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OneInEight · 05/11/2016 10:16

Unpleasant reading but resonates truth. That momentary pleasure of watching your depressed child finally have a smile on their face only to have it dashed minutes later when he tells you it was the worst experience of his life and you are the world's worst mother. And the futility of trying to get help when nothing seems to make a lasting difference.

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angryangryyoungwoman · 05/11/2016 10:16

There are a few religious references, I wonder if this has affected his responses to her illness

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rainyinnovember · 05/11/2016 10:18

I think so too, King :)

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BakeOffBiscuits · 05/11/2016 10:20

ipost Flowers


You say you can love and hate someone at the same time. My problem with the Guardian article is that he shows no love at all. If he had balanced som elf his negativity, people may have had more sympathy with him.

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MackerelOfFact · 05/11/2016 10:23

The whole thing seems to have been crafted to demonstrate how superior he is. From the ridiculous over-flowery language to the examples of amazing things from he felt he had done for her, it just smacks of self-congratulation. Very odd and deeply unpleasant.

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Maudlinmaud · 05/11/2016 10:27

ipost you had me in tears. I can relate to this in so many ways. Thank you for sharing Flowers

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HandbagAtDawn · 05/11/2016 10:30

Yeah I read this and thought he made himself sound like a cunt.

That poor girl.

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throwingpebbles · 05/11/2016 10:31

It's horribly over written.
But that's not the most ghastly thing. What awful things to write about her at 6, at 10.

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MarianneSolong · 05/11/2016 10:31

People here will express intense anger and frustration with their children because of developmental behaviours that will pass.

I imagine too that it is very hard to see the happiness of one's own daughter or son consumed by the struggle to parent a child who is almost impossible to help.

I think it's important to acknowledge that people who are deeply unhappy can also inflict damage and make others unhappy.

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ShowMeTheElf · 05/11/2016 10:33

Gosh, I didn't read that article as angry at all.

To me he's trying to make sense of what happened & part of what he sees is that her whole life led up to this moment. You could say "Why didn't everyone try harder to be more empathetic"; but then he talks about how head strong she was, ran rings around the mental health professionals, & will-fully refused to acknowledge her terminal illness. The only bitterness I read was towards the mental health panel that let her run rings around them (not sectioned).

One could say "That's what mental illness is, that people can't help themselves"; but the bottom line is, it's absolutely rotten to deal with when people who are willfully self-destructive. It can make you completely crazy trying to help them. One is allowed to detach when the only way to preserve your own mental health is to distance yourself from their problems.

Yes I have personal experience.


This. Exactly this. I found the part about seeing the joy on her face at the falconry and then her saying it as the worst day ever particularly resonant. I think that he is grieving horribly while trying to come to terms with the fact that there was nothing he or anyone could do to help her. Then when she seemed to be better and he pulled her up on something inappropriate she had said (as you would to a teenager) she just crumpled. As the parent of a troubled teen I had to have training to help me walk this line; to raise them and guide them while being mindful of their lack of resilience and constant emotional vulnerability.

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maggiethemagpie · 05/11/2016 10:34

The thing that struck me most as I read it was the lack of compassion. Maybe he's the one with the mental health issues...

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Bountybarsyuk · 05/11/2016 10:42

I agree that iPost is the better writer, and had he tempered his post with even a tiny bit of her compassion, it would have been a better article.

I get he's angry though, in fact, he's very angry. I know what it feels like to be angry and resentful at being enveloped in a family members ongoing mental health issues that just never seem to end and take so much from you personally that you feel physically sick and start to dread the future yourself about continuing on in the round of sadness, overdoses and treatment that promises a cure but never really works.

Fundamentally, however, it takes a very un-insightful person to see that your pain is just nothing, nothing, compared to the pain of actually living that, as the person affected. How much worse than you, who can let out your anger/frustration to a sympathetic friend, or even a counsellor, and then live your normal everyday life.

Honestly? He sounds emotionally stunted. It may be that he's numb after the ups and downs, the roller coaster of the years. Or it may be he's always been a bit unempathic, hard to say.

Talk of him 'contributing' to her death is utterly ridiculous though. He couldn't save her, it wasn't his role, he couldn't even if he wanted to, and neither could anyone else including his daughter who sounded very involved- its not possible, hence the incredible anger.

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