To feel forcing cross county on children can be counter productive in enjoying fitness

[rabbit12345]

Debate with my DH this morning . DH is a keen runner. He discovered his love of running two years ago after always being a big sedentary child/adult. He now runs 15k a day and loves running.

Today I gave DD a note (first time ever she is in year 9 and PE is a core GCSE subject at her school) so that she did not have to do cross country today. There was a good reason for her not to do it but DH thought I should be forceful in encouraging our daughter to take part.

I should say that we are a very active family. My DD in question dances 5 x a week for 2 hours a time.

My argument stems from my childhood. I remember having to run around a muddy school field in the freezing cold, gasping for breath (some girls were physically sick). You had the naturally sporty girls who would fly around the field and it only led to feeling more inferior and ultimately I ended up bunking off from the lesson or forging notes from my parents. I believe that this has led to a lifetime aversion to running. Every time I think I would like to try, I remember the muddy school field. In many ways I feel that being forced into it as a child, led to my general aversion to physical activity as an adult and it took me years to look at this differently and start finding activities that I loved.

So my argument is to encourage physical activity for the children but in areas that they love and not to worry if she decides that she does not enjoy running around a muddy field. (I told her to walk it if she wants) I feel by putting pressure on her could be counter-productive. I just feel health and fitness is so important and should be approached in an enjoyable way and I do not understand why the school do not make nutrition/lifestyle an important part of the lesson.

DH says that there are things in life you just have to do and we should take that view with DD. But surely this relates to paying bills etc. As an adult if she realises she does not have to do it then she will not if she has been forced through childhood. Surely it is better to educate a healthy lifestyle in it's entirety?

AIBU.

[Megainstant]

The Mile was run as a competition (every day!) and kids were told they had to 'improve their personal best by 30 secs EVERY day).

I don't believe your children were told they had to improve their PB by 30 seconds everyday

That would mean dd would have to be running it in negative seconds by next Friday

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

YANBU. I remember feeling completely humiliated because I had no stamina for running (plus I'm so slow) but like your daughter I was dancing every night so it wasn't like I wasn't fit.

If there had been couch to 5k then it would have been more reasonable to do that - I can reliably run 10k now but it's taken me 8 months of running three times a week to get there!

PE may well have changed since I was at school, but to my mind it simply makes those unsporty people less likely to get into sport or regular exercise. Very few of the not naturally athletic people will continue a sport they hated at school.

[BillyNotQuiteNoMates]

This will put me, of any of my friends are on here, as this is one of my hobby horses.
I think we should scrap PE teachers in schools, and send in a mix of specialist sports instructors, in a wide range of activities, to show the possibilities and variety out there.
I left school thinking I hated sport. Now, I wish I'd been able to do martial arts, trampolining, tennis, badminton, gymnastics, cycling, boxing, swimming, diving, synchronised swimming, yoga, dance of all descriptions etc, etc. The list is endless. Instead of that, we did hockey/ netball (awful if you're not a team player, or popular) and minimal athletics (i.e. Run round a track) or cross country (run round the roads while trying to avoid the teacher spotting you sneaking into the sweetshop/ cafe)
We need to embrace the clubs and opportunities that are in our areas. Encourage children to try new activities.

[Sirzy]

Billy, that is pretty much what the primary schools here have. All the schools have come together and there is a company who they all employ to provide specialists for the PE lessons. It works brilliantly.

Shame it doesn't carry on in the secondary schools.

[Butteredpars1ps]

Mmm tricky. I think children should be encouraged to try out lots of sports with the aim of finding something they like / are good at. Unfortunately, PE isn't delivered like that.

Cross country isn't bad in itself and I would like to think that everyone could try it. The trouble is, that I too have awful memories of school cross country and I truly hated hockey. In all honesty our school PE teachers would stand in warm tracksuits and coats drinking coffee whilst we ran round in shorts and t-shirts. As others have said, there was no actual coaching or gradual build up and so no opportunity to find something that we enjoyed.

It's an interesting debate.

[MrsMook]

I think PE teaching is improving, but probably variable between different schools (in my years of casual supply, I found it the most lucrative subject to cover as few female supply teachers were willing to don their trainers and spend the day on the fields).

I did PE in the traditional days of being yelled at, skirts and gym pants and very sexist divisions in sport (a knowledge and experience of football would be handy for raising my children)

I was so awful at running, throwing and catching that it took years for the PE staff to realise that I was genuinely that awful. My reports were always glowing except diabolical efforts in PE where the efforts I did put in weren't recognised because my performance was that bad. Shunned by the team pickers, the eternal loser, subsitute or goal keeper, there was little opportunity to improve my performance. (Remembers the odd number in tennis and being sent to play agains the wall, and still being trashed by an inanimate object )

Having done C25k, there does need to be more coaching in how to run. I remember the 8 minute run being the longest I had ever run continually as at school every time, I'd end up with some combination of stitches, shin splints and hyperventilating from the vain effort of getting my short legs to keep up with the rest of the class.

Kit needs to be appropriate for the weather. (Frost in completely bare legs really didn't raise morale- leggings were banned, and tracksuit bottoms which weren't in fashion were authorised so infrequently that it wasn't worth buying them)

Running needs to be built up to gently with intervals. The pace needs to be slow.

My experience at school left me believing that I couldn't run, and it was only seeing friends learning as adults that encouraged me to try the C25k podcasts where you're encouragingly talked through. Now I can run half marathons at a respectable pace. Fortunately I enjoyed more individual persuits like dance and have always stayed active. So many teenage girls and young women end up becoming completely sedentary.

So back to OP. Being miserable in PE is counterproductive. Writing a note to allow recovery from illness is reasonable. There needs to be some degree of sucking up or no one would do it, but participation needs to be encouraged by making it as comfortable as is practicable. There needs to be a sense of achievement and progress for all. Miserable experiences have negative impacts on long term participation in sport, and on a societal level, that needs improving.

[Lovelybangers]

So if your DD is ill then yes, she can be excused running today. It is cold outside - and if I was recovering from an illness I would rest up.

To answer the main question about sport in schools - I hated PE in high school. It was assumed that I would be good at it - as was tall, slim ? However there was no training for any of the sports. We were just told we were playing hockey/tennis/running cross country across the bleak, cold moors . If we had been given some lessons in how to best tackle these sports then I think more pupils would have been keen to to play/do the activities.

When I got to 40 I started running and love it. That is because I have read up on how to start, improve and enjoy the sport. I wasn't just thrown out there in my navy pe knickers .

[Lovelybangers]

MrsMook Looks like I x posted with you. We have pretty much said the same thing!

[Antifrank]

When I did cross country it was taken by the Geography teacher for some reason. He used to drive up to the village green we ran round and sit in his car smoking whilst counting us passed.

The route was hilly, muddy and always cold. I believe it was what they call character forming.

[fleurdelacourt]

I didn't do cross country running at school but have taken up long distance running as an adult. My friends' reaction is almost universally one of shock as they hated cross country so much they cannot imagine doing it voluntarily now.

YANBU

I think the role of PE in schools is to show kids a range of different sports - with a view to encouraging them to adopt one or more as hobbies when older. Forcing kids to run long distances in the winter does not really achieve this IMO. Shorter distances (I like the daily mile idea - do not believe any school expects a daily 30 sec improvement though...) are a greta idea as they improve fitness but are over quickly.

That said, it does all depend on the child. DS is v lazy and forcing him to do sport is the only way - after half a term of rugby he now begrudgingly admits to likiong it. DD is a v keen sporty kid who happily pushed herself as hard as she can.

[ErrolTheDragon]

In the case if the OPs DD, it sounds like she's not fit to run in the cold so the note is appropriate.

In general - cross country can be ok if its done well. DDS school had a pleasant route (mostly a nice canal towpath) and the criterion for 'success' was improving their own PB - even if by a second or two, nothing like the case upthread where the kid 'failed' if not 30s better which is ridiculous. DD was absolutely not a natural runner, but she quite enjoyed it when they did it in ks3, and has said to me a couple of times she was sorry they didn't do it in ks4 too (they got to use the fitness suite then, which maybe was better for many but she thought it would be nice to have a run in the mix)

[toomuchtooold]

I think that learning to listen to your own body is a useful skill for fitness. Just pushing through is fine when you're a teenager maybe but you want to be learning habits that'll result in continuing with injury-free exercise in your 30s and 40s and beyond.

[RhodaBorrocks]

Silk my DS school does the daily mile too, but only weekly - each year group is allocated a day to do theirs, so the school can say they do it every day, but each child only does it once a week IYSWIM?

I hated PE, particularly running. I have EDS so I'm hypermobile and have heart problems.

For that reason, I never expected much from DS. He isn't hypermobile but he gets a lot of strains, sprains and soft tissue injuries BUT he loves cross country. He enjoys doing the mile and in his year group he is usually in the top 5 distance runners (90 kids per year) as he knows how to pace himself then speed through the last bit.

I desperately want him to join the town athletics club now he's old enough (9) so he can have proper guidance on running to minimise the groin and hamstring strains he keeps getting (I don't think school do adequate warm ups and cool downs either), but he is very resistant right now. I've backed off a bit because I don't want him to hate something he is good at.

OP I think the best thing you can do generally is not excuse DD from running (apart from if she is ill as described - that is NBU). It would be far better to support her to always try her best and as long as she can say she is then it doesn't matter how well she does and to ignore the teachers. That's what my parents did with me and I had to endure teachers shouting at me despite my heart problem etc. By the time I got to year 10 I used to make it clear to them I was doing my best and shouting wasn't going to magic away my issues. Luckily PE was optional in year 11 as long as we did something, so I just used to swim lengths of the pool. If your DH wants her to push herself more then he needs to get involved himself!

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Cross country was always a waste of time when I was at school - most of the kids used to sneak to the shop and buy fags!

The issue with the argument 'well you wouldn't let them get out of the subject if it was maths, English etc, is that (at least when I went to school) with academic subjects, we were put in groups of similar abilities, and the work was tailored accordingly. In PE, everyone had to do it together, the teachers were only interested in the sporty kids and made no attempt to help or encourage any of the less able pupils.

[ElsieMc]

Oh cross country. I didn't really mind but I cheated with my friends. It was in the Lake District and we would jog through the woods and then turn sharp right into my friends farmhouse. We would then have a brew and her dad would run us back in his landrover whilst we lay down so we couldn't be seen.

Swimming I just hated - vile teacher. Register would be called to ensure we got on the coach and as our name was called out we ran out to get on the bus and I turned sharp right and ran off. Shame because I have never learned to swim properly and I lay this at the door of horrible school memories.

No YANBU op although I do think exercise is important but it is to be enjoyed and not some form of abuse.

[wasonthelist]

YANBU To feel forcing cross county on children can be counter productive in enjoying fitness

Like quite a few on here, my memories of school cross country are of pure misery. I was as skinny as a rake and tall for my age, but had no stamina for long distance running and I have always lacked coordination at ball sports. I was bullied and ridiculed regularly throughout my school career by the Games teachers and other kids for my lack of prowess and I totally gave up on running.

[MavisCrouton]

I loved PE at primary school. When it came to secondary though, it was less about having fun and exercising at the same time, and more about boot camp. I had asthma and remember clearly the games mistress holding my inhaler above my head and refusing to let me use it until I had ran an extra two laps. The same cruel cow used to watch us shower and check whether you were wet as you came out - if not you would have to go back in. I really enjoyed netball but wasn't good enough to make the house team, so was forced into hockey which I detested. Funnily enough cross country never worried me because it was all outside school grounds so I used to start off, then nip into the park nearby and wait until till the last lap then jog back.

[blissfullyaware]

Gosh such a terrible shame that so many people has such bad school experiences with PE. Interesting question also about forcing kids to do it. I took part in a competitive sport outside of school for around 20 hours a week ( to national level). I was never pushed by parents I just had an innate ability and utter passion for it. It was in my blood. I hated and was rubbish at cross country although now I love running ( still crap at it) but can run 10 k and usually manage 29 k a week as its head therapy aswell. My daughters school have taught her how to run interestingly and have a 'lactic acid walk' afterwards. The PE teacher is an amazing lady. However it's still not her sport and although she could easily compete she told me she deliberately held back to come in outside of the top 10 so not selected for races. I was disappointed to be honest but she is so active and good at other sports - does it matter? She is super fit. I think that schools should offer a graduated approach to this kind of stuff- so for less fit and able perhaps they do a 2 min jog followed by 1 min walk. In groups based on ability. You wouldn't give a child who struggled at maths an A stream maths paper and watch them crumble would you? So why aren't we doing the same in sport- or build up fitness, confidence gradually.

I'm not an advocate of not taking part at all - we all have to have a go at difficult things- but it should be graduated - building skills just like academic learning not forced. It's just counter productive and benefits no one

[Ghodavies]

Shall we write the kids a note excusing them from anything they don't love??
Tell you what let's not send them to school!!!!!
Really !!??

[blissfullyaware]

BilyNOtQuiteNoMates - you are so right - this is a great way forward. Most state primary schools and secondary do not do anywhere near enough for our kids. Specialist sports teachers all the way.

[rabbit12345]

Gho, as previously said my daughter needed the note for a medical issue. I didn't ask if I was BU for writing her the note in this instance.

The question to mumsnet was because this sparked an interesting debate between DH and I about the way cross-country and PE is promoted in schools.

Bliss - this is exactly what I was thinking. I have open evening next week and will be asking this question when I go.

[dodobookends]

YANBU. Cross country is a loathsome thing for anyone who dislikes running, and is enough to put you off for life.

If she's dancing for 10 hours a week then she is going to be pretty fit anyway, and dancers often find running difficult. They spend years training their legs and muscles for sideways turnout rather than the usual forwards and back which can actually make running a long distance quite challenging (this is something that my dd's PE teacher once told us).

Running can be seriously bad for keen dancers' feet and knees as well (because they are used to exercising on a properly sprung floor) and they can then be more prone to injury when running on an unyielding or slippery surface outdoors.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Gho I'm sure many parents would keep their children at home if they were in mixed ability groups with little or no actual teaching or guidance for every subject. Some children are slower, clumsier and/or less confident but that needs to be taken into account instead of punishing them for bad performance.

PE and general fitness is so important, so it's even more vital that teachers don't make children actually hate it to the point they will never do another sport even into adult life.

[eddiemairswife]

Thank goodness we didn't have cross-country when I was at school. Hockey was bad enough in the freezing cold, and not being allowed to wear scarves and gloves. I enjoyed, and was good at, gym and national dancing... nice , warm, indoor activities! Some years ago I remember a group of boys from the local secondary running up the road and into the house of one of them, emerging 30 mins later and running back to school.

[5Foot5]

Given that she is still recovering from an illness that might be exacerbated by running then I think YANB in the slightest U and I have done similar myself.

A few years ago when DD was at secondary the school had organized a "reindeer run" for charity which everyone had to take part in. It was something like 5 times around the school field wearing antlers. All well and good but when the time came:
a) it was a horrible cold wet day
b) she had a heavy cold.
c)it was two days before they broke up for Christmas.

I would not normally keep her off school for a cold but on this occasion I felt that the combination of the three things could lead to her being poorly over Christmas so I kept her off and told the school she was sick.