To not be ashamed.

[sugarplumfairy28]

I'll try to cut a long story short. I am half English and half German. My parents were told that I didn't need dual nationality at birth as all of Europe would be come one and dual nationality within Europe wouldn't be a 'thing'. So I have always been British.

I have never fitted in with my English family, more in looks than anything, (I am short, red headed and very fair) it wasn't until I met my more extended German family I finally felt like I had a place within my family.

At school I was literally beaten for being German (my maiden name was a give away) Children in my neighbourhood were also fond of regularly beating me within an inch of my life. To make matters worse my parents put me in the middle of their differences, in making me choose between them and their methods on how to deal with the problem. I tried to commit suicide at 13.

Thanks to my Nan and my karate instructor, I somehow made it back on the road to normality. Among other things they taught me to be proud of who I am, and where I have come from, the struggles and my German heritage. 2 years ago I moved to Germany with my family. My children identify with being German more than English and both are almost fluent. During the EU referendum I was appalled by the hatred and xenophobia and decided that I do truly identify with being German and as such decided to formalise my German citizenship. In response to this, my Grandfather has publicly disowned me. That I have sided with the enemy and he hopes I find out the 'true nature of Germans'.

My parents have just been to the UK for a visit, my Grandad has said Germans are not welcome in his house and while my Mum can visit my Father no longer can - because of my decision. My brother had to be vetted before he was allowed to visit, in that he had to confirm he is not seeking a German passport. I have to be honest I am more than a little upset that my immediate family are not bothered that I am being treated for something I am legally entitled to, or the horrific way my Grandad has chosen to speak to me.

This is the question though, baring everything in mind. My Mum has asked that I keep quiet about the whole German thing, that I make no public statements about how I feel about my nationality. She is angry at me for putting her in the middle. AIBU in thinking that I shouldn't have to feel ashamed, that I should be allowed to be proud of who I am?

[MagikarpetRide]

It's not easy. I'm from British Irish mix and I understand you. I've never really fit in with either side. I'm too Irish to be British and too British to be Irish. At school we were the Ira or stupid etc. I definitely look more classically Irish. Since brexit I've been singled out for this a couple of times and been given verbal for the first time in years. It's not been nice.

Given his age you could believe it was the onset of dementia. It could also be the fallout from brexit media - my own dps are very verbally outspoken now about anyone who doesn't live according to their own views of what is right. It could be both.

I feel for your DM but in reality you've nothing to be ashamed of. As long as you aren't saying all British people are twats then it's not really your problem.

[Sugarpiehoneyeye]

Sugarplum, it sounds very much like your Grandfather has the onset of Dementia. He may very well present as normal most of the time, but totally irrational at others. Could you speak to your Mother about it ? She must also be feeling exceptionally uncomfortable, with his rantings.
Finally, be proud of who you are 🌺

[Manumission]

My parents must be roughly the same age as yours. The 'hush up' about anything awkward approach they have drives me mad. I don't know what the answer is. I keep my distance and refuse to play along with it all (by not being there much).

[Teahornet]

My mother was a very tolerant, Left wing person but she had a bee in her bonnet about Catholics and the Irish.

Unfortunately, this isn't wildly uncommon, in my experience as an Irish person living in England.

I'm trying to find it now, but can't, but there was a piece in either last Saturday's Guardian or Sunday's Observer about a British woman living in Germany taking German citizenship, doing the language requirements and citizenship test etc, and the ceremony - and mentioning the significant numbers of British people she met at the language exam and the citizenship ceremony.

[GreenandWhite]

I feel so naive. I genuinely thought that ethnicity, nationality, skin colour, religion etc were going to become increasingly less 'of a issue', and that in the 21st century (after what the world has been through last century) xenophobia and bigotry were on their way out (in time), not just in the UK but Europe / elsewhere. I now feel that ethnicity/religion all these factors have become an issue everywhere. This makes me very sad.

[Manumission]

I feel so naive. I genuinely thought that ethnicity, nationality, skin colour, religion etc were going to become increasingly less 'of a issue', and that in the 21st century

TBF, one of the ways that will happen is by the WW2 generation dying off.

And one of the ways hatred will be perpetuated elsewhere is by the continuing trauma of current wars and conflicts. it's all very sad but also understandable.

[RiverTam]

It could well be the onset of dementia, having said that if dementia isn't an issue then he's just a racist bigot and his age and experience us no excuse and I'm pretty appalled at all the excusing going on here.

My mother is nearly 81 and she would no more fly in the air than speak about Germans like this. Because she's not an ignorant bigot.

[sugarplumfairy28]

The more I think about it, the more I do think there may be an underlying medical issue with him. The last few years he has been more snappy, swearing and generally angry. My cousin had an argument with him a few years ago where he was swearing down the phone at her. After my DD was born (she is 5) he was asking why both my children only have German names - they don't. In fact only my daughters first name is German.

His behavior at my Nan's funeral really wasn't very like him, and it was seen by everyone.

My Grandad has 4 daughters, and has ALWAYS! been incredibly soppy, he loves all children and they love him, he will always put on a spread even if you turn up just to say hello. He has always been quite up to date with technology and generally keeps himself busy with clubs, or making video collages for friends and family, weekend breaks away. He would lend you anything if he had it to lend. He has never been a foul mouthed judgmental old man. I think this is just one subject where this 'new' side of him has shore through and given what he has said, it's not something I can just forget.

I have suggested to Mum that perhaps he needs to be reviewed for dementia, and she ended up just crying. I have tried a couple of times to see if there is a way she could talk to one of her sisters, who actually live in the country, and see if they can convince him to go to an appointment but I'm having no luck.

I think given everything I have personally gone through over the years, I just needed some unbiased opinions. I am hardworking and will bend over backwards to help someone if I can. I am practical and I don't think I have ever been called lazy, and I am very much like an awful of my German family, and that's not a bad thing.

[MirabelleTree]

I think sadly after losing her Mum to Dementia it is easier to ask you to change your behaviour rather than to take on board your other parent may have it as well. It does sound as if your Grandad has undergone some significant personality changes through last few years which are indicating some kind of medical issue.

As to getting him assessed there is only so much you can do, it often takes a crisis before people will get help sadly. It always sounds so easy saying about getting someone checked out but it can be a huge problem getting them there as they turn on you and can get very nasty , so I fully get why no one is doing anything about it at the moment. If someone could get him to have blood tests though as a start it would be very helpful in case there is something underlying other than Dementia. I wonder if an Aunt could be persuaded to voice concern to his GP who could call him in for 'an over 80's MOT'?

Really sorry you've been and are going through this

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

I have suggested to Mum that perhaps he needs to be reviewed for dementia, and she ended up just crying.

I have a feeling your mum knows your dad isn't well and doesn't know what to to.

It is incredibly difficult. We are going through it at the moment.

[LucyLot]

I literally don't know a single person who would even give someone's nationality a second thought be that French, German or Spanish. I think your family is racist in the extreme but I don't know anyone else who is like that about white European nations. I have heard of people being racist and saying racist things about people with non white skin (obviously deplorable idiots) but I have never come across the attitude you are describing. I think your well rid of the family making a big deal out of you being German!

[sugarplumfairy28]

It is such a horrible thing to happen to anyone piglet My Nan died a year ago last Saturday from Alzheimers. My Mum didn't get on with her Mother - there's a surprise. It was 16 years of hell basically. My Nan's Mother also had it and Nan never accepted that she had it, no-one was allowed to mention the A word around her. I can't say I blame anyone at all for being in denial.

[Memoires]

My MIL is now at the last stage of dementia, she has barely any language left, and everything else went a long time ago. It is devastating for dh, who remembers his grandmother in the same sort of state. Worse, sFIL hates dh so dh is not welcome and his suggestions and desire to get her the help she needed were met with dreadful obstruction. She's beyond help now, really, but is well looked after at her home amongst familiar things.

For me, the worst of it is seeing flashes of what might be first stage in dh. He won't hear my pleas to get himself checked, so I feed him fish twice a week in the hope that I am wrong and fish will help!

I do empathise with your plight. It is so, so difficult.

[PacificDogwod]

IMO, xenophobia towards German nationals, or even just ridiculous cultural stereotypes (which I accept are there for a reason) are alive and well and have little to do with age or whether or not somebody has lived through WW2/the 3rd Reich. It seems to me to be more of an attitude - I have had the hilair "Don't mention the war" said to me more times that I care to remember - now, I love Basil and Faulty Towers and the episode in particular is very funny. But NOT having that line quoted to me as an individual, an individual born more than 20 years after the END of WW2.

sugarplum, on reflection I agree with PP who has pointed out that your experience has more to do with your dysfunctional family than nationality or xenophobia in general.
I think you need to emancipate yourself from their mess - post on FB whatever you like, accept whatever reaction you are going to get. As the old chestnut goes you cannot alter anybody else's behaviour, you can only change your reaction to their behaviour.

[PotteringAlong]

My grandmother was older than yours - she would be 97 if she was still alive now - and she had dementia. Once, when she really didn't know who we were or what was going on, she punched a nurse who was looking after her because she was German.

She was overseas during the war and, even after her death we don't know what she did. But something in her brain was more deeply ingrained than it could remove.

I would say that before the dementia set in she travelled the world, including to Germany, without punching anyone. My dad also took in a big box of chocolates and flowers to apologise. She would have been mortified if she had understood what she had done.

[TheAntiBoop]

My kids are half German with a very German surname and no one has ever commented. We do live in London though.

I'm dual national and I'm totally the other way - I dont feel like I have a nationality and don't really feel I need to as part of my identity.

[sugarplumfairy28]

I don't mind the stereotype most of the time, my Dad does wear sandals and socks, and he wear a beige waistcoat most of the time. Since being here I have mistaken so many older men for my Dad, they all dress the same!

Unfortunately the name in question is erm quite well known, and again unfortunately it can be very directly linked to the war.

I can just about brush of my Grandads attitude and remarks, attribute it to an underlying problem, or age or surpressed memories, even if I can't forgive him (maybe time will help). It is my Mum wanting me to keep quiet about anything German that makes me proud or brings me enjoyment, that I think is unfair. At the end of the day if on any level she didn't want her children to associate with being foreign, let alone German, than she shouldn't have married and had children with a foreigner.

[MagikarpetRide]

I may have once shut a conversation with my df down when he was moaning about all those bloody immigrants coming over here, bringing their families, taking jobs off brits by snarkily butting in saying 'like you did with dm' (he's the Brit btw)

[PacificDogwod]

Your mum's issue with your Germanness is her issue - don't take it on as your own. I do realise that is much more difficult to do than to just type out or say, but anything else will drive you insane.

[Poppyred85]

Haven't rtft but his statement he hopes you "find out about the true nature of Germans," by which he is presumably referring to Naziism, hardly smacks of tolerance does it? I appreciate he was likely a child during the war but as many who lived through it have accepted long ago that Naziism was not representative of many Germans his attitude reflects only his own bigotry.

[GreenandWhite]

"It is my Mum wanting me to keep quiet about anything German that makes me proud or brings me enjoyment, that I think is unfair."

mhm... Is it at all possible that your mum is being a bit childish (but without any malice) and that living in Germany and seeing her daughter and grandchildren, actually her whole reaming family are immersed in a culture different to her own is making her feel a little irritated and sidelined? She might experience your embarking all things German as rejecting your mother's culture.... this might be potentially hurtful for her?

[GreenandWhite]

not emarking, embracing! bloody keyboard.
I mean, maybe your dm feels a little bit rejected?

[Daydream007]

You have no reason to be ashamed. Be proud of your German roots. Your grandfather is obviously affected by the war and still sees Germans as the enemy. This does not mean he is getting dementia. After the war he will have had a very poisoned view of the Germans.

[sugarplumfairy28]

Well after speaking to my Mum again about it, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. Her motivation is money.

She strongly suspects dementia and has tried to talk to him about it when she visited. My Grandad claims his memory is excellent (it isn't, but no-one is suggesting it should be) and she is just being over cautious since her Mum died and there is nothing to worry about.

Mum is said she is passing his comments off as dementia related because otherwise it's too much for her to handle. She has told me, that she will not have me costing her thousands in inheritance, and that anything that promotes a German lifestyle needs to be on lock down until he has passed away and she has her money.

It's a double edged sword for me personally, I feel generally better that all of this may not be his true nature, however I am yet again appalled that money is more important to my mother than anyone else's happiness.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

In that case Sugar I would stop contacting your DM and try and get help for your grandad yourself.

How selfish is she to not help him because of money