To not be ashamed.

[sugarplumfairy28]

I'll try to cut a long story short. I am half English and half German. My parents were told that I didn't need dual nationality at birth as all of Europe would be come one and dual nationality within Europe wouldn't be a 'thing'. So I have always been British.

I have never fitted in with my English family, more in looks than anything, (I am short, red headed and very fair) it wasn't until I met my more extended German family I finally felt like I had a place within my family.

At school I was literally beaten for being German (my maiden name was a give away) Children in my neighbourhood were also fond of regularly beating me within an inch of my life. To make matters worse my parents put me in the middle of their differences, in making me choose between them and their methods on how to deal with the problem. I tried to commit suicide at 13.

Thanks to my Nan and my karate instructor, I somehow made it back on the road to normality. Among other things they taught me to be proud of who I am, and where I have come from, the struggles and my German heritage. 2 years ago I moved to Germany with my family. My children identify with being German more than English and both are almost fluent. During the EU referendum I was appalled by the hatred and xenophobia and decided that I do truly identify with being German and as such decided to formalise my German citizenship. In response to this, my Grandfather has publicly disowned me. That I have sided with the enemy and he hopes I find out the 'true nature of Germans'.

My parents have just been to the UK for a visit, my Grandad has said Germans are not welcome in his house and while my Mum can visit my Father no longer can - because of my decision. My brother had to be vetted before he was allowed to visit, in that he had to confirm he is not seeking a German passport. I have to be honest I am more than a little upset that my immediate family are not bothered that I am being treated for something I am legally entitled to, or the horrific way my Grandad has chosen to speak to me.

This is the question though, baring everything in mind. My Mum has asked that I keep quiet about the whole German thing, that I make no public statements about how I feel about my nationality. She is angry at me for putting her in the middle. AIBU in thinking that I shouldn't have to feel ashamed, that I should be allowed to be proud of who I am?

[kittykittykitty5]

I can totally sympathise, my Mother once did not talk to me for six months in the early 90s because I went to Germany on a business trip for four days.

[shovetheholly]

If he has dementia, he needs to be diagnosed and treated, and the behaviour therefore needs to be thrown out by the family as irrational and a symptom of an illness, not something that should be taken seriously.

While I accept that this is never an easy conversation to have, the earlier help is sought the more that can be done. We are going through this with FIL at the moment, so I do understand how difficult it is.

[sugarplumfairy28]

Rrross my parents are here with me. We have a 2 generation house, and they are literally downstairs. Overall my Mum is selfish and unfortunately it has taken the last couple of years to see that. What is worse, she is a Daddy's girl. I do understand that none of this can be nice for her, it's not her fault her Father has done this, and what he has done is pretty awful. Having said that I don't think it's my fault either.

My Father is German, my Mother is British. I am German and I am British. All I am doing if making it official because it has never been official because of what my parents were told when I was born.

It's a big deal for me, because of how I was treated when I was younger. It was like people were trying to make me ashamed of my German family, and psychologically being German is why I was miserable for years. But over the years I have come to realise that many of my traits and attitudes are very common in German society. In making my citizenship official it feels like the fight is over. I am who I am, and I should be able to say that anyone without punishment.

I think possibly my Mum my worried about losing her Dad altogether and maybe it is easier for her to try and bully me into submission than him, even though I haven't done anything wrong.

[kittykittykitty5]

Sorry, I pressed enter too soon so my response looks a little flippant.

I agree with other PPs who suggest that either MH or Dementia seems likely.

[sugarplumfairy28]

theholly I do understand that in all reality he needs to go to the GP and have a discussion dementia.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone who is going to do that for him though. I know my Mum is in the dog house, his wife is pretty much completely submissive and isn't the sort to tell him what to do. My Aunts are all still very very traumatized from what we have been through with my Nan and I don't think any of them are willing or perhaps even able, to see that it could be happening again.

While I feel like my heart has been torn out by my Grandad and I have lost him, I am trying to attribute it to age, or being a little senial. It is my Mum who I think is unreasonable in asking that I hid my nationality, and that it's not something I can be proud of.

[Rrross1ges]

Ah, of course the 2 generation house is quite common in Germany isn't it? So you can't get away from her.

You really have not done anything wrong. Her treatment of you is baffling. I can understand her desire to humour him but she should not be blaming you for this situation.

[shovetheholly]

Yes, I think your mother's behaviour is completely unreasonable too sugarplum. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Can you not at least establish some sense of reality outside of his behaviour, e.g. by saying to your mother that you think he is ill, and that the behaviour is the unreasonable consequence of that? Even if it doesn't lead to any action on his health, it is valuable for the family at least to have a consensus that his words and behaviour are unacceptable. Otherwise you start entering that parallel universe where demented thinking is normalised?

[sugarplumfairy28]

Rrross yes it is, very common. It's not like I want to vinyl wrap my car with a German flag and post it all over Facebook. I just want to be able to say silly things, off the cuff things. Here's an example, my daughter now makes up songs in German, and when playing in her room plays while speaking German. Or that our son now sleep talks in German. Just normal every day things, that I know our friends would find amusing, or that my husbands family would be proud of. Or that our cats we brought over from the UK understand German. Or that Okotberfest is so not what people think it is, it's a real community get together, it's laid back and friendly not an all out drinking contest that turns into a brawl. Just every day life.

[GreenandWhite]

Hi OP, for what you had to experience as a German British child, that is very worrying. I am married to a German and my children are Bristih / German.

I have two questions and hope not to be too selfish in asking on this thread:

"But over the years I have come to realise that many of my traits and attitudes are very common in German society. In making my citizenship official it feels like the fight is over.
What sort of traits do you mean? Outspokenness? What else?

Also do people believe children with German ancestry who live in Britain today will experience a similar level of xenophobia and hate from their peers?

OP, all I can say is that I hope you will enjoy your amazing sounding life in Germany. Your mother seems to be the problem, I hope you can talk with her and work things out. How does your father feel about all this?

[amusedbush]

My grandad is 86 and has dementia. The first sign of odd behaviour when it set in was him being rude about my husband who was raised Catholic.

I'm not saying that your grandad doesn't believe the things he says but my previously kind, lovely, teddy bear of a grandad quite suddenly became a rude, nasty bigot who vocalised sectarian nonsense. It was very upsetting and confusing.

[diddl]

You sound so young for all of this bad treatment to have happened!

Your GD is 86 yet you were bullied at school in UK for having a German father?

Bloody hell!

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Also do people believe children with German ancestry who live in Britain today will experience a similar level of xenophobia and hate from their peers?

No I don't.

Tbf my cousin lives in Germany and her DH is German. She has had some bigoted, xenophobic things said to her about the British.

People that have xenophobic, biggoted views do so no matter where they are.

[sugarplumfairy28]

Greenandwhite Things like being to the point, not mincing my words If someone wants an honest answer or opinion I'll give them one - there are very few people I will sugar coat things for. I like being organised and structured in the way I do things. Being on time, apparently is also a very German thing. Practical thinking, trying to make sure I have a solution for any problem, being thorough is also very German - no point doing half a job. Traditional family values and a love of nature too, which was a new revelation to me (I have a small zoo at my house).

As for how society views German heritage families or children, I think that depends on where you live. I lived in Essex which really isn't the most accepting place to be honest. My children never experienced any issue but the were only little, but my experience was 15-20 years ago.

My Dad actually feels vindicated, that he now has someone who knows exactly what my Grandad can be like. He doesn't blame me, but is siding with Mum in that I have put her in the middle. My parents are very good at giving out completely different views and opinions.

[sugarplumfairy28]

diddl I'm 30, this all happened late juniors and senior school. Unfortunately we lived opposite some very very nasty people who truly hated Germans, they actively passed their views on to their children. It was those children who bought it all into school, and it went from there.

We had the police out on a number of occasions. The main problem boy threatened to assault my baby son for being a child of Hilter! After I started driving he would wait for me to come home from college and run out into the road trying to cause an accident so that it would kill me. I cannot explain how utterly horrific it was.

[ooonatoffolo]

I know of a family, Scottish mother, German father.
Children blonde and blue eyed. Bilingual. Father works in Germany.
Went to live in Germany for a year.
They have just returned to Scotland as the little girl was bullied mercilessly (2 broken arms) by immigrants to Germany from Turkey
(so her mother said).

It's all so sad and unnecessary.
OP, I don't know if your grandfather is dementing. GP visit sounds a plan.
If he is not, then I think it is just a stick to beat you with.
Your family dynamic is obviously not great.
The 'German vs English' thing is perhaps just the hook it is hung on and the recent Referendum (I voted out but don't hate Germans or anyone else) has stirred it all up?

[shovetheholly]

I learned German in school 15-20 years ago and there were loads of kids who wouldn't even learn the language because of xenophobia. I don't find it at all difficult to believe your experience, OP - it's just disgraceful that this can happen in "modern" England.

[sugarplumfairy28]

ooonatoffolo that's awful! We have Turkish families where I am, some Syrians and obviously my family, and this is a small village. The locals are very very welcoming and rally round to help everyone. My son at school is the exotic foreigner and pretty much has a huge circle of friends who want to be with him, on his team, or his girlfriend. I'm not for a second going to suggest that don't happen here too, but it's certainly not very common at all.

theholly my school went through several German teachers. German lessons were an out and out brawl.

[MirabelleTree]

I am really shocked to hear what you have been through Your Mum really is being unreasonable and if she is in the middle then that is where she has put herself. She chose to marry your Dad and needs to be stepping up for you now. I would utterly ignore them and carry on putting what you want on FB.

Greenandwhite my experience is very different to the OP's . My Mum was German so I guess a lot of people who knew me wouldn't know unless they had met her. I was one of 3 children in my school who had a German parent, I was at school in the 70's and 80's. There were little digs and a few things were said that shouldn't but that's as far as it went. I can't relate to any of what the poor OP has been through at all as haven't experienced it in any shape or form.

[user1470043860]

How old is your grandfather? There are not that many left who fought in the second world war.

[sugarplumfairy28]

He is 84, he was a child during the second world war.

[Manumission]

Are your parents the ones who reneged on the deal about splitting the house, overspent, bitched about the gardening etc?

If so, how's the plan to move to the city going? You could do with some distance from ALL of the family really.

[ooonatoffolo]

sugarplum
yes, it's really sad. poor girl. she was bullied here before she went to Germany (not racially, something else). it made her timid and the bullies would have sniffed that out. the fact she was German (and Scottish) and they were Turkish/Syrian is just an aside in a way, I just mentioned it to show that it can happen even in these circs

there is a lot of it about sadly and it can happen anywhere with any race 'ganging up' on another or using race as an excuse to bully.

I'm sorry about your Grandad. I don't think: 'English people are like that' or 'German people are like that' I just think they are people, and I am not sure that racial characteristics are that strong / helpful.

Be proud of who you are - a mix of both.
Naturally you feel closer to your German rellies than your (odd) British ones after the way they have behaved to you.

[Manumission]

7ish when it started, 13ish when it ended. I can imagine him seeing, reading and hearing some brutal things about the distant and scary 'Germans', almost like the bogey men, things that were formative and frightening and may be re-emerging now if he is starting to experience some symptoms of senility. So maybe early trauma as much (more than) bigotry.

But, at the end of the day, it's not your issue to contend with. You have your own things to deal with.

[sugarplumfairy28]

mission one and the same. I thought this subject though, we were all on the same page. In her defense she has said that my Grandad is wrong for saying those things, and especially in such a public way, that she is worried about his health, but! has put it on me to keep quiet.

We are still working towards getting out. DH and I have come up with our list of things we won't compromise on which is a good start. We have been to view some houses. Unfortunately it is a long road though so it will be some time yet before we can actually go. Other than a few hiccups, my Mum has been better but I'm not thinking in anyway it will stay like that.

[MagikarpetRide]

It's not easy. I'm from British Irish mix and I understand you. I've never really fit in with either side. I'm too Irish to be British and too British to be Irish. At school we were the Ira or stupid etc. I definitely look more classically Irish. Since brexit I've been singled out for this a couple of times and been given verbal for the first time in years. It's not been nice.

Given his age you could believe it was the onset of dementia. It could also be the fallout from brexit media - my own dps are very verbally outspoken now about anyone who doesn't live according to their own views of what is right. It could be both.

I feel for your DM but in reality you've nothing to be ashamed of. As long as you aren't saying all British people are twats then it's not really your problem.