to storm out of school with my daughter this morning?

[refinnejk]

(I have posted this in primary education too, hope that's OK)
My 8-year-old daughter is unhappy at school and I don't feel the school are offering the necessary support. After a short meeting with the 'parent liaison officer (PLO)', I said I would take her home as I wasn't happy with how the school were dealing with the situation. I am going in to meet her teacher later and I would like some advice/insight about what I should say/request/expect. I don't like being a difficult parent but I feel I have to do something to help my daughter as she is so unhappy.
Backstory - my daughter has had issues all the way through school and I would describe her as complicated. I have generally gone for the tough love option and pushed her in to school crying/screaming/sobbing on occasion. Last year she had a very unsettled year with 4 supply teachers over the year. Towards the end of the year, we arranged a meeting with the school to discuss how unhappy she was. The school was receptive, and the PLO talked to our daughter twice and moved a boy who was 'annoying' her. She seemed happier and enjoyed her meetings with the PLO. The PLO then stopped the meetings after about 2 weeks, as she thought the situation was resolved and said my daughter should just go knock on her door if she wanted to talk to her again - which I know she will not do, and I told her so. At the start of this term, she has a new teacher, an NQT who seems very nice and my daughter likes her. She was seated next to the boy who annoys her again, which I raised with the PLO, and he has swapped with another boy - who used to call her names (she didn't tell me this last year) and he elbows her to make her work a mess. Now I realise the problem is possibly/probably with my daughter, and she does need to tell her teacher - but how do I get her the support that she needs? What if she won't tell the teacher? What should I expect from the school? What do other schools do? The PLO simply says she has to tell the teacher, but she won't. if she would, I'm sure we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I think she is very quiet at school and doesn't like to 'tell' on other people. At home she is not at all quiet, she is often moody and unhappy. She argues constantly with her younger sister who has a completely opposite character. She has friends on our street who she loves to play with and gets on well with them. I admit to finding her difficult to deal with myself, but she can be really lovely, especially when I spend time with her on her own. Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

[diplodocus]

You could be describing the situation I had with my DD - she'd been unhappy for years at school, the teachers (and to a great extent myself) blamed her lack of social skills and oversensitivity, and kept trying to suggest we were overprotective parents and there wasn't a real problem. It came to a head last year when we realised our DD was not the only one experiencing low level bullying / general unkindness from some of the other children - one parent took their child out of school and another complained frequently with nothing done. We finally took our child out (it was a tiny school with only a few children in each year, which really compounded and quite possibly caused the problem) and despite dire warning of how our DD would never cope in a larger school she's thrived. I really regret letting the teachers blame dd for what went on, and particularly regret not sticking up for her more.

[JinkxMonsoon]

since she wasn't talking about bullying no-one else should have been

What strange logic.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

I can't believe how foul a couple of posters have been. At the very least, here is a little girl who is unhappy and anxious. Of course her mum wants to help her.

Just because it's AIBU, it's not carte blanche to be rude and unkind, whatever the thread's about. Some posters would do very well to remember that.

[timelytess]

Now I realise the problem is possibly/probably with my daughter
And quite possibly, it isn't.
Nudging people to spoil their work is commonplace in schools. Nasty children are everywhere, the products of nasty parenting.
Continue to all you can to look after your daughter.
I'm glad your younger dd does not share her problems.
for you all

[aginghippy]

My dd's school's ant-bullying policy defines bullying as:

• Hurt has been deliberately/knowingly caused ( physically or emotionally)

-It is a repeated incident or experience, e.g. two or more incidents

-There is an imbalance of power;
(i) target feels s/he cannot defend her/himself.or
(ii) perpetrator(s) exploiting their power (size, age, popularity, coolness, abusive language, labelling/name calling etc)
(iii) involvement of a group

Based on OP's posts, I think her dd's experience is bullying according to this definition. It has been a repeated experience, dd feels she cannot defend herself, she has been called names.

I hope you get the school to take this seriously and do something about it, OP. The situation is clearly a detriment to your dd's education.

[HistorianMum]

I was that child. I didn't consider suicide, but I spent my teens desperately unhappy, and continued to have issues as an adult. I've had counselling three times now to deal with it. So ignore all the posters who think YABU. You are not. I don't want to scare you, just to make the point that this kind of bullying leaves scars. It is bullying, if someone writes on your child's clothes like that. Maybe she is shy and sensitive, but that isn't a crime. I agree if there are ways to help build your daughter's confidence, then great, but equally don't let her feel it is somehow her fault that she isn't more assertive. Tell her there is nothing wrong with being quiet. I would talk to the school, as others have suggested, insist she is put next to someone who will not cause problems, and that they deal with it. Keep insisting.

Do the kids that she does play with go to a different school? I'm reluctant to suggest that you change schools, as it should be down to the school to sort things out, but it might be worth considering.

[kali110]

Or posters can recognise the signs of bullying

[kali110]

HistorianMum same

[blankmind]

Smrendell So sorry for your loss.

The posters on this thread who are trying to minimise the OP's DD's experiences and excuse her bullies could do well to read your post several times over and look up the definition of the words empathy and compassion.

It's imperative that every incident is looked at and logged to see if it is a series of escalating behaviour. What happens only too often is that school and the bullies' parents take one incident and minimise it, every time. They do not appreciate how insidious the drip, drip, drip of (in their opinion) trivial incidents can wear away the bullied child's self-esteem, often until they are broken

[a7mints]

My DD had a similar situation, and you just need to keep at them.
The thing that worked best was the teacher having an exercise book that DD wrote in discreetly during the last session of the day about how her day had been.The teacher could then address any bullying incidents THE SAME DAY.

[BarbarianMum]

I don't want to minimise anything but wrt the arm jogging thing, it might be worth checking the handedness of each child. Ds1 had a spate of problems with his seatmate - they were both constantly accusing each other of knocking their arms. Turned out one was left handed and the other right and they were seated in such a way that they were effectively jostling for the same space (small table). Swapping them round helped no end.

[DeadGood]

Arseicle you seem to think that using the word "bullying" is akin to libel. Why also touchy?

We are giving advice to a person online. If it turns out not to be bullying, great. Nothing will happen to these boys because someone somewhere who never met them and never will used the word "bullying"

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

My first request would be for your DD to be allowed to sit next to somebody she gets on well with - somebody who she trusts.

If that solves her problem, then the problem obviously did lie with the behaviour of the boys she has been sitting next to.

If it doesn't help, and DD still feels the same way about school, then maybe a referral to an Educational Psychologist would be in order (this used to happen via school, not sure if it still does).

If it turns out that your DD is being bullied by one or both of the boys, then school need to be very clear with you as to exactly how they are going to put a stop to it.

[Boffered1]

If your DD is not confident to loudly say "stop elbowing me" could she perhaps note on the work that is spoilt "sorry about the scribble x knocked my arm" that could be a discrete flag to the teacher of who is doing it and how often? Also as previous posters have said keep a daily record so school can build up a good picture of the issues.

[kali110]

I remember people elbowing me at school.
It was definetely done maliciously

[Ninasimoneinthemorning]

Tbh though even if this was bullying - most schools are shite at dealing with it. My friends dd has her finger broken amongst shit loads of other stuff yet the school still seem to protect the bully. Her dd is now moving school to get away from him. They are primary age.

op would you not HE for a while? Are you able to do that?

[smokeybandit]

OP I also agree with a lot if the poster about bullying. It's not one incident from what you've said and it's the same people. BUT you must help your daughter realise that these things need to be tackled at the time, not days or however long after. She needs a way of communicating with the teacher that she is comfortable with and to not be around those who are bullying her. The school needs to tackle the seating, and you need to help your dd - I used to tell my ds to write the problem in his planner and take it to the teacher or call them over like they would be looking over his work, so it wouldn't be as obvious.

[MaddyHatter]

low level harassment is still bullying if the person it is being done to is being affected on an emotional level.

its unacceptable and needs dealing with.

[Ionacat]

It sounds like she would benefit from some ELSA support. Lots of schools have a ELSA trained teacher/LSA. It is emotional literacy support, not a fix for problems but more to enable pupils to have support in dealing with problems. Pupils are usually withdrawn from a lesson for the support and the support will be specific to your DD. Rather than just tell a teacher, and a few meetings it does sound like she could do with some help with emotional literacy, so you could ask specifically.

[Trifleorbust]

I think you need to give your daughter these strategies yourself. She is clearly struggling to communicate and the teacher has 20-odd other students to think about. She could write the teacher a note after class, or you could give her some red card to put on her desk if she is having issues. It's not unreasonable to put the onus on her rather than expecting the teacher to check whether she is okay every day

[refinnejk]

First of all, thank you so much to the many people who have offered support and advice, and also the people who have illustrated the other side. By reading all the comments I have been able to see things more clearly and realised what I have to do. I have been too concerned about making a fuss for too long. I had a meeting with the new teacher and the PLO after school today. I did bring up bullying for the following reasons: 1. Boy X (I think) wrote POO on the back of her cardigan in permanent marker pen and splashed her work with water. Boy Y calls her 'Spesh Kid' and elbows her to make her work messy. She has sat with these two boys for years because they are the same ability. She doesn't want anything to be done about Boy Y because 'he is the boss' and he will get angry.

The teacher said that of all the people in the class, those two boys would be the ones most likely to make life difficult for someone. She will move my daughter and she will discreetly talk to her every day on her own. She will ask her to collect books in at the end so that she ends up staying a little late and won't make it obvious to all the class that she is having 'special treatment'.

The PLO was quite defensive and dismissive of bullying because we don't have proof, but I was assertive in reading the list of all the things that have happened and requesting a plan of action. I didn't blame the boys and demand that anything happen to them at this stage, but I did request that the school pro-actively help resolve the issue rather than say my daughter needs to tell a teacher every time something happens. I don't think she wants anyone to know that she gets called Spesh Kid, not even her parents.

I accept she is shy, sensitive and anxious, and the school have supplied me with two books to read/work through, and also said we can see the school nurse, which I will do. I feel much more positive after speaking to the teacher. Fingers crossed things will improve, or we get the help we need.

One more thing, I was asked if they could put her absence down as due to sickness, and intimidated by the alternative and the consequences with social services if I don't. Is there an alternative? She wasn't sick, she felt sick at the thought of going to school, which is different and I think would like that recorded.

[kali110]

I think that's disgusting they threaten you with ss! She was too upset to go into school because two pupils are picking on her everyday
No i would refuse to put it down as sickness.
I think you do have proof of bullying!
Calling your daughter ''speshkid', has her clothes vandalised and her work destroyed. I wonder if there is more that she hasn't told you?
She doesn't want anything to happen to the 'boy in charge' because she's scared.
Why was she sat next to this boy again? When there were known problems?

[SandyY2K]

This reminds me a little of my DD when she was in primary school. She wouldn't tell the teacher, only me when she got home. Then one day she had a girl elbow her just like you described to mess her work up .....she told the teacher and apparently it had happened many times before, as she'd just come back to school from some days off sick, she lost patience.

It's terribly frustrating trying to tell her that she had to speak up and tell the teacher. She also had an annoying boy and I asked that he was moved away from her as well. He would kick her, pinch and tease, but she would only ever tell me.

She never had it so extreme that she cried when going in, but she's quite sensitive and like your DD, although quiet in school, when at home she could be a pain with her sister and a real pain in the neck..

I honestly feel your pain, but do persist.

On transferring to high school, I requested that the annoying boy who was the bain of her life was not placed in the same class as her and they ensured he didn't have a single lesson with her

[refinnejk]

I feel much happier with the teacher than with the PLO, I have to say. The teacher is new to the school and probably hasn't been told all the things she can and can't say to parents yet! She is an NQT but first impressions are very good.

[aginghippy]

Glad you felt the meeting was productive. Sounds like the teacher was listening and has some good ideas.

I don't understand the comment about being intimidated. Who is being intimidated? What consequences with social services?

Doesn't sound good or professional if they are proposing to lie in their absence records to cover up the problem.