Obese people to be refused surgery

[ReallyReallyNearly]

Isn't this just another form of discrimination, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752
Argument seems to be on financial reason rather than health, do we stop nhs services for people who smoke, or those who drink too much etc. Where does one draw a line?!

[ShelaghTurner]

Fabulous uses. I'll be able to buy more cake with the money I won't have to pay into the NHS. Oh no, wait...

[ShelaghTurner]

*idea

[lazyarse123]

Good one Lello. The way they have marketed this idea is wrong, they need to make it clear that operations will be carried out after the right help has been given. I have osteoarthritis in my knee and I know it's not helped by my weight, I have been doing slimming world on my own and have lost a stone so far but it is very expensive to buy the right ingredients, I have been overweight for a number of years and it's not easy but I'm not a bad person because of it.

[RepentAtLeisure]

My thyroid collapsed after I gave birth to dc. The GP fobbed me off for three years - of course you're exhausted silly, you're a new Mum!

Then when blood tests were done, I was put on the wrong medication for a decade which would have shown in my 'perfect' blood tests if he'd known what he was looking at.

I went from a size 10 to a 20 with lots of other symptoms.

I now buy my own medication from abroad because the NHS only have one (unreliable) supplier who vastly inflates prices.

I am attempting to lose weight, but I'm slightly under medicated as I'm medicating myself and so have to be conservative, which makes it very hard to lose weight. And my knees hurt, and I may need an operation at some point.

And considering that the NHS has bungled or neglected my care at every turn, it would be the cherry on the shit cake for them to refuse to operate on me too. Pack of cunts.

[WorraLiberty]

There are massively less smokers today than there was 5 or 10 years ago.

I wonder if that has had a direct affect on NHS funding?

[WorraLiberty]

'Considerably' was the word I was searching for

[Shiningexample]

Yes, far fewer people popping off early from smoking related illnesses all costing the state money with their extended time spent in retirement
Then again what about all the unpaid work they do helping with grandchildren etc?

[Welshrainbow]

I disagree with this policy mainly because it is a cost cutting exercise. All the obese people that will have to wait over 12 months for non life saving surgery won't be offered any help to lose weight in that time because that would cost money on top of the money they will eventually have to pay for the operation anyway. Added to which surely it is much harder for an obese person to lose weight of they find it difficult to exercise if they are in pain from needing a hip replacement for example. Where do they draw the line on non life saving surgery. A broken arm isn't life threatening, it will cause pain initially but the pain will eventually fade without surgery to set it. Does that mean that person should be refused that surgery? Also isn't obesity classes as a medical condition surely it won't be long before somebody is suing the NHS for discrimination on this policy?

[OliviaBensonOnAGoodDay]

Where do you draw the line though? People should pay for their own HIV treatment because they chose to have unprotected sex? Women who've taken HRT should pay for their own bread cancer treatment, because they knew taking HRT would raise their risk of BC? Someone who breaks their leg on a skiing holiday pays for their own treatment because they knew the risk of skiing? Etc etc etc.

Almost nothing in our modern lives is without risk to health, surely?

[pieceofpurplesky]

I am a teacher, single mum and carer for a parent. I have to do a second job to pay the mortgage and the debts my ex left me with. I also do private tutoring. I just about manage to fit all the work in, be a good mum and shower and cook for my mum who lives with me.
I also suffer from depression. I binge eat. It is my adult version of self harm - my arms hold the scars of the teenage version.
I work bloody hard, have taken no days off work, pay my taxes, make a difference to children's lives (I have letters from parents and pupils saying I have so not a stealth boast), I am a great mum of a well balanced and week mannered little boy and enable my mum to stay at home and not be in a home.
Why should I not get treated as someone who contributes to society over someone thin who deals in drugs , or a skinny alcoholic or a slim person who has never worked in their lives (not for medical reasons just someone who doesn't work)?

[aprilanne]

i would like to say i am overweight and my eldest son is a smoker and i agree that unless its life threatening then yes they should refuse operations .these two groups of people are more likely to die under anesthetic than any other .joint replacements are are a waste if you are overweight because you just aggravate the problem i am only a couple of stones heavier than ideal but smashed my knee cap on holiday 3 years ago .came home to britian had it fixed but still in pain and limited mobility but i can only blame myself .i could say its because my hubbys illness is causing me stress because i come from a family of large folk that i cant help it .but at the end of the day my love of all things sweet is the problem .

[Shiningexample]

We are being groomed for private healthcare, the temptation to farm us all for profit is too great
All the data from online activity and spending will be analysed by the insurance companies and then used to score you in terms of how unhealthy your lifestyle is.
Facebook will make a killing selling the data from your account to the insurance companies
Your health insurance premium will then be calculated accordingly

[PikachuSayBoo]

The chance of someone dying under a GA because they have a bmi of 31 is minute. Not enough of a risk to take into consideration. Obviously the risk increases the bigger a person is, when you have a bmi in the 50s and 60s yes it's a risk.

I think cases should be considered on an individual basis by a medic, not by an accountant!

[Themoleisdead]

I would have said people should be made to,lose weight til I developed a thyroid condition which took 2 years to get diagnosed. In that time I piled on 3 stone which I have been unable to shift despite eating a reasonably healthy diet. The thyroid problem causes changes to your metabolism plus the exhaustion makes the prospect of exercising nearly impossible- I walk my dogs for an hour each day and do yoga but could not cope with anything more energetic. I don't feel I should be penalised.

[Themoleisdead]

Forgot to add that the above has made me less judgemental about people who are overweight

[MissMargie]

I don't get how people believe the nhs is a bottom less pit- seems blatant to me that funding will have to be restricted as people live longer/ more expensive drugs become available/ the population increases, something NEEDS to give

[daisychain01]

My best friend has been put on the waiting list for a knew replacement. Due to immobility she has put on weight over the years. She has been advised to lose a couple of stone before the Op

She isn't using her immobility as an excuse, she's cracking on with trying to lose the weight reducing her food intake, and even doing some swimming and static biking.

People can use every excuse under the sun not to deal with it or they can do what my friend is doing and take ownership of the problem. Even if my BF doesn't lose all the weight I admire her for at least trying to sort it.

What support do people need that they can't find for themselves ffs, with the massive amount of Internet resources, local weight watchers groups etc etc. People seem incapable of self help these days!

[daisychain01]

Knee

[Lelloteddy]

Pikaachu can you share the link please? Am trying to find actual stats for anaesthetic and post op complications and obesity and failing miserably.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I would like smokers suffering from a condition exacerbated by smoking to pay for treatment for that condition

Ex smoker here, but I think you''ll find then in buying the product which causes the harm, smokers as a group more than cover the costs of their health treatment - which with most food zero rated for VAT hardly applies to the obese

That said, I get the argument for refusing surgery if outcomes will be very poor, but not otherwise; I realize something has to be done about the massive cost to the NHS of the obese, but for me that's a step too far down the slippery slope

[YeOldMa]

Fat people are quite often refused procedures. My daughter became obese after her congenital condition stopped her from exercising. She couldn't move from the bed and was completely dependent on the food provided to her by her DH, who being as slim as a matchstick with the wood scraped off, provided unhealthy, fattening food. Once she started to recover enough to get out of bed a little but still not exercise, she sought help for weight loss. It was disastrous, the weight counsellor did not accept the advice from the bowel specialists at the hospital who had managed to identify her food intolerances of gluten and lactose so said she wasn't trying to help herself thus discharged her. Every specialist on the NHS said she needed to lose weight and exercise but agreed the latter was impossible with her condition as she was in so much pain so she was sent to the Pain Clinic. The very condescending Pain Specialist showed her pictures of how much lettuce she could eat compared to a pizza then refused to give her the pain injections because she was too fat. On the way out the door, the nurse complimented her told her she was lucky she had beautiful curly hair. At that point I lost it and very bluntly told them that short hair had been down to her backside before she had her collapse but had to be cut off because she couldn't raise her arms to brush her own hair and her husband found it too much top cope with. One of her problems with her collapsing spine can't be operated on because she is overweight. It is a vicious circle to which there appears to be no answer.

[QueenLizIII]

I thoguht this was already the case.

One of my old neighbours was very obese. I used to see her struggling to get into her small car and also when she got out, she had to hold onto the door frame and hoist herself out, it was a real struggle

She was over 60 I think and she needed routine surgery for something. They said not at that weight, it isn't safe, lose weight and we will operate. She lost 3 stone and had her surgery.

This was years ago.

[daisychain01]

Themoleisdead where there is a medical history of weight gain through a condition, then of course that is a different matter.

In general terms I think it ought to be part of the ongoing assessment of the patient's history as to whether they are a suitable candidate for surgery rather than a blanket "ban". It shouldn't be about blame, but rather it's doing a risk assessment of how likely the patient is to get through the op, and whether recovery could be aided by going into the operating theatre in a better circumstance - such as 2 stone lighter in my friend's case.

[QueenLizIII]

People seem incapable of self help these days!

Quite daisy and in an age where you can find things out at the touch of button and the phone in your pockets has access to it all.

In the 80's and 90's we were looking in bloody libraries to find things out. We managed.

The more information and help available, the less people seem to be able to engage with it.

[ToastDemon]

Yet more cuts to the NHS, and meanwhile Theresa May bows down to the junk food industry when she had the chance to make a difference: here