Obese people to be refused surgery

[ReallyReallyNearly]

Isn't this just another form of discrimination, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752
Argument seems to be on financial reason rather than health, do we stop nhs services for people who smoke, or those who drink too much etc. Where does one draw a line?!

I find the BMI cut off point a concern. 1 in 4 people in the UK have a BMI of over 30. Without exercise a BMI of 30 could become much greater and no knee/ hip surgery could result in more people being unable to work. Essentially a quarter of adults could be refused elective surgery.

You can be obese and slim at the same time. I have a BMI of 31 at 5 foot 6 but am a size 12 with ab definition. I've been told to lose weight for fertility treatment too. At the same time flabby size 16s with the same height as me can get anything they like as they have a bmi of 29. Not fair!

It has been discussed many times what a blunt tool BMI is, and how wrong it it is some cases.

Our beloved government is saving money by letting fat people (refusing life enhancing surgery) and disabled people (benefits cuts and changes) die sooner.

After all what is the point in prolonging/enhancing the life of this sort of person, they mess up statistics and they cost us all money....

The doctor ordered my dad give up smoking or they wouldn't operate on him.

I think that if it is self-inflicted obesity, or smoking or drinking then it does make sense for the patient to address that problem first. I know a relative of mine was asked to lose 6 stone before having a hip replacement, and she just knuckled under and did it. She had to live on lettuce and melon for six months, but at the end she had the hip replacement and the chances of success were much better because she'd put the work in first.

When the NHS was created I understand that it was really there just to address infectious illness and now it is trying to deal with all sorts of lifestyle-related problems. I think that asking us to take responsibility for our own health makes a lot of sense.

People seem incapable of self help these days!

Up to a point, yes - and isn't this also linked into the "me too" thing?

Undoubtably there are some conditions which feed into weight gain/retention, but it seems there's danger of some obese folk self-diagnosing and deciding "oh yes, I've got so-and-so too; it must be that!!" ... anything, in fact, rather than accept responsibility for their own health

There should be a more holistic approach to BMI and surgery.

Yes Moos plus they need more anaesthetic, and more recovery time.

It's a bit like bolting the door after the horse has bolted.

More money needs to be spent on families to promote healthy eating. More needs to be done in food labelling, advertising and bloody added sugar in everything your pick up.

I think on here the other day a poster thought she was being condemned by Greggs staff for drinking coke rather than a Ribena, in her mind the Ribena was a healthy option. Parents really do think that giving their children something that has a fruit or vegetable or a nut on the packet is the best thing.

Meaning that if you have good bloods, blood pressure, lung function it should count against the BMI.

There are some really hysterical responses on this thread. Of course, they won't refuse basic treatment. However, it is pointless and unfair on the patient to replace a weight bearing joint like the knee or hip when they're obese. Saying "oh but you can be fit at a BMI of 30" is missing the point. It's the abnormal weight distribution that is the issue. Chances are, the person needing that new knee won't be running 6 miles a day and in the gym 5 times a week lifting anyway.

AGenie ,if your aunt lived only on melon and lettuce she is lucky not to have died. Losing weight is generally much less painful.

Even if it was not a Ribena and a Tropicana juice, both are still loaded with sugar. Fruit sugar is still sugar even from healthy juice acornsandnuts.

Even among educated people. I am a lawyer and one of my barrister friends was doing the 5:2 diet. She told us on a night out that on her fast days she was drinking fresh orange juice all day. Someone quite rightly pointed out that one glass of OJ is 200 calories and loaded with sugar. This was doing her no good and she was consuming thousands of calories if she drank this all day.

Some people educated or not, just arent if these things.

The problem with knee and hip replacements is the waiting lists play into the problem. Months and months with limited mobility, add the possibility of depression to it, and by the time they get to the top of the list, their weight might be a problem.

'Sugar tax and tax on convenience foods which are the route cause of obesity.'

Taxing sugar is fucking stupid. Why? Because all manufacturers will do is cut it out and fill everything with fucking artificial sweeteners, which are even worse. And convenience food is not the route cause of obesity, people relying on it for a heavy part of their diets because it's what the shop near them sells or they cannot afford to run the cooker and oven much because energy companies are allowed to gouge the fuck out of everyone is why.

The basic point here is that if I needed a hip joint I'd recover really quickly, as I'm fit healthy and used to exercise and very athletic and muscular. However as I'm technically obese I wouldn't get the surgery without weight loss which could make me less healthier.

It's all really silly.

at some stage the users of the nhs have to take some responsibility. It's all very good (& very easy) to just blame the government, particularly when it's conservative one, but the facts are the nhs has ENORMOUS amounts of public money poured into it every year and it's never enough. And yes, I'm sure that many people can insist they know the ways that the govt/management are at fault but in my whole life time there has been numerous different health secretaries, red or blue in charge and the cry of "not enough funding" continues. At some stage someone surely has to start to move some responsible to us - the users.

There was a thread recently about charging people for missed appointments but the argument was that people with depression can't be expected to cancel an appointment, people with anxiety can't and the list of reason went on and on. So we put no responsibility on the users to turn up ..... but complain about the waiting list!
Other threads have been about cosmetic surgery or IVF being available, but the prevailing comments are always "well you can have a baby so I should be able to" or the physiological damage caused by having no boobs/too big boobs/wonky nose etc is too great so we, the users, basically expect the nhs to provide every surgery and service we want. Anything that can be provided by the private sector in fact because otherwise "it's not fair."
There are threads and news stories about new drugs refused because they are too expensive for too little return .... But the argument is to an individual dying of cancer an extra 6 months is priceless so no user responsibility there.
And now ..... if you smoke or eat excessively then you will not be able to have non urgent surgery for a year but there are many arguing that's not fair .... so no user responsibility again.
When do we say 'enough' and start expecting USERS to take some responsibility, instead of endlessly excusing the public of any personal responsibility? If we don't, we just continue to demand more and more extreme expectations the system while giving nothing back (other than tax money) and the system will never be able to meet these expectation. The original motives for the nhs was so that people who were sick, were treated and didn't die ..... we seem to have strayed along way away from that.

This is nothing new. 20yrs ago I was 5 stone over weight & also a Jehovah's Witness. I needed a Hysterectomy. The consultant looked me in the eye & said " I hate Jehovah's Witnesses, but I hate fat people even more ". He wouldn't operate until I'd lost that 5 stone.

For those who deliberately make themselves obese, good! but for those who have become obese through no fault of their own e.g. Eating disorders, addiction (two quite serious mental illnesses), illness or as a side effect of medication need the help!

With smoking, alcohol and drugs, it's a lot easier to quit smoking with the different replacements like e-cigarettes, patches, chewing gum etc than it is with alcohol and drugs- they do need the specialised treatment to help them! Fair enough that people choose to drink or do drugs but everyone's circumstances are different. As already mentioned in the paragraph above, addiction is an illness and a serious one at that!

The "they" that you refer to acorns and nuts is a quarter of the adult population. Size 16 plus, wouldn't stare in the street.

This was inevitable. Not everyone who is morbidly obese is that way due to health problems.

I have an aunt in Canada who was not allowed a knee replacement until she lost weight. This is a sensible approach.
People in the UK abuse the NHS and the NHS does nothing to help itself. Everyone should have to display their health and care number when being given treatment so it can be properly tracked. And people ALL people should be charged for missed appointments even just something like £5.
Take some responsibilty folks.

By the way, size 16 now is not what it used to be. I tried on a vintage jumper the other day from the 80s. It was size 16 and a bit tight on me. I'm a size 12.

The doctor ordered my dad give up smoking or they wouldn't operate on him

My best friend was refused breast reconstruction (following breast cancer and a mastectomy last year) unless she have up smoking.

She tried but failed to give up. She still smokes but told the hospital she's given up (ie she lied). No one checked. The operation went ahead with surgery despite her consultants refusal unless she stopped smoking.

I don't think people have been reading things right. An obese person won't have to wait until they are not obese- if they lost 10% of their body weight they would get their elective surgery. And certain people would be excused- I'm guessing those that have little control over their weight due to medical issues.

Likewise smokers just have to have given up for 8 weeks.

I think that is actually quite reasonable. It would increase safety of surgery, and recovery. It might make people think again before certain food choices, or taking up smoking. It makes it clear that excess weight and smoking have severe consequences for your health.

Start of a slippery slope so I don't agree with it. As I understand it a patient who is morbidly obese is often advised to lose some weight before an important operation such as hip replacement for e.g., can take place anyway.