AIBU to think that we need more education about the sea?

[LyndaNotLinda]

Six people dead in 24 hours around the British coast. Many more injured. Lots of RNLI staff risking their lives to save people who have taken insane risks.

I live on the coast and a number of people on our beaches get into serious trouble every summer and that isn't even with a storm thrown into the mix. Once you add that in, the risks to holidaymakers are enormous.

Do we need government warning to tell people that it isn't safe to go in or near the water in high winds? It just seems that people were taken totally unawares by the power of the sea :(

Surely rnli and lifeguards volunteer knowing theres a high chance they will be expected to risk themselves to save other people who get into trouble in the water?

Where is the line between idiot and unfortunate? If a local that grew up near the sea gets into trouble is that unfortunate or idiocy? I don't think all people who need help in the sea can be idiots can they? But thats what some people seem to be implying.

Thank goodness that the beach we go to doesn't see a lot of drunken bravado Portia. That would drive me insane. I honestly don't know how you cope with that.

It's not difficult to keep as safe as you can. Check the tide - is it coming in or out? Don't go out further than waist height. Look at the way the waves are breaking. If you are bodyboarding, every single time you catch a wave (or try to) stand up, look back and check you are still between the flags. Move yourself if you're not. And don't go onto the beach if it's wild weather.

They're idiots when they ignore danger flags ignore tannoys and tell us to fuck off then expect help when they get caught in a rip

I am lifeboat crew. The RNLI have a huge campaign to reduce the number of drownings by half by 2024 as the aim. The Respect the Water campaign and Swimsafe are part of this, as well as education in coastal communities. Something like 50% of drownings are from people who never intended to be in the water (walkers, onshore fishermen etc). This weekend was tragic and makes me all the more determined to support the RNLI. I have friends involved with this weekend's tragedies; I wish it wasn't the case.

I'd find it really hard not to go in if my dog got in difficulty but the sad fact is that more often than not the dog makes it out (on account of being better swimmers than us) and the human doesn't.

Having been pulled in by a lifeguard this summer I am very grateful but don't think I was being an idiot.
We were between the flags and in our depths when a 6ft wave knocked ds2 off his feet and the rip caught him. He went sailing by me on his body board.
I had to leave my depth to grab him, got him to kick his legs and pushed him along, shoving when a wave came and took him nearer the shore.
The lifeguards kindly offered me a tow on their board pulled by the jetski. They took me before ds2(their call, I wasn't going to argue as they know what they're doing) and when they went back for him he was at knee height. So we may well have been ok. I was shattered though.
They then pulled in another four people.
I am very grateful for their help.
I don't think that everyone who needs help is an idiot or taking risks but some are.

I learned about the dangers of the sea - and cliffs, lakes, moors, mountains, fog, snow, etc etc - from childhood reading. Arthur Ransome, Malcolm Saville, Chalet School et al.

But as pp said, people don't seem to have a sense of personal responsibility, or to make it their business to inform themselves about things. The expectation always seems to be that schools or someone else should do it.

I'll be honest I don't know anything about rip tides, Spring tides or any of the other terms I've heard. I can't even tell if the tide is coming in or out.

What I can do is look at what colour flag is flying and check the information sign that they have on most beaches (the ones local to me they do anyway).

I think people can forget themselves whilst in holiday mode but also the sea is unpredictable, people may think they are being safe but things change quickly.

Very greatful for the lifeguards, rnli and volunteers.

Littledrummer

everything you have written bar the inbetween flags bits.

Made me cringe. You were both in too deep. The sea can knock out odd larger waves but 6 foot, means it was already pretty rough.

Being out or in your depth in a swimming pool is completely different to being in the sea. Just because you can put your feet down doesn't mean you are safe like a swimming pool.

I don't think you are an idiot but I don't think you understand the sea and its dangers.

Yy to educating children through information ads on chrildrens tv.

I used to live in south devon. There's a small village where people go when the spring tides are forecast to be very high. It's really dramatic and brilliant to watch from a safe distance because of the way it sweeps up the estuary, often faster than a person could run. We used to go to watch every time but from the safety of the on beach beer garden. There were always dickheads who had to be on the beach, in the water, racing the tide. They are free to disregard their own safety but what of the volunteers who then have to go out and save them?

I am ckmpletely in awe of the young lady kn the Newquay crew. She's 18 I think and a stsr

And Im getting tired and clearly cannot spell.

I am fully aware that the tide is more dangerous than a swimming pool cap. The tide was up to our thighs before we were knocked off our feet as any higher would have been stupid. I chose to leave my depth when ds2 went past as I felt he would be calmer with me beside him.
As I said earlier, he was well back in his depth when the lifeguard got to him and I am pretty certain I would have been ok if they hadn't helped, just very much more tired.
We knew there were big waves and were being careful, ds2 got caught but he is learning his limits which is why I was there.
Having lived near the coast for most of my life (though sadly not at the moment) I am well aware of the dangers the sea poses.

I think some people think that big waves will just wash over them and do not realise that the power of a large body of water falling back can take them with it.

My friend is obsessed with taking my children swimming in the sea and mocks my cowardice in refusing to allow it 😡. My dad was at sea all his working life and always warned me about the dangers - he witnessed some terrible tragedies. Very sad.

I reckon you were on a beach with a shelf at the high tide line drummer. Where when the tide is coming in the dip fills up with water which gets deliciously warm . Then the 'real' tide meets that at it's highest point and then starts to turn. Does that make sense? Easily done I know. And very scary.

We were in southwest France last week, on an Atlantic beach we know well. The tide was the highest I've ever seen it and the lifeguards were so jumpy we wondered if there had been an incident. And yet one day there was a couple (both French) "paddling" their baby in the sea right in front of the sign saying DANGER BAIGNADE INTERDIT.

Having grown up in S Wales with the massive tidal range I am very wary. Waves carry much more energy than you realise and when the tide is moving the sheer volume of water is relentless. People get caught out because the sea goes a long way out but comes back bloody fast. I just checked the next tide for a beach we used to go to as kids low tide 1m high tide 12m. Think how many tons of water are moving and if it's being pushed by the wind as well, you could easily get caught out.

I haven't understood any of the terminology used here, I don't know the flag guide (though could guess red is bad) and the beach we go on holiday to doesn't have flags or lifeguards.

Am now wondering if I ever put the DC in danger!

Though I only let them paddle up to knicker line and the sea was calm. Though quite far from the shore? I am always with them. Though older DC likes to lie down and swim back from thigh depth?!

Hopnails this link and pics might help.

In the link it calls some waves dumbing waves they are also known as plunge waves.

www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/understanding-waves-tides-and-currents

I live on a completely different ocean, but the idea of letting a child go much past ankle depth alarms me. Then again, we have warning signs about rip tides, heavy surf, tsunamis and rogue waves all over the damn place.

Reading through this thread I find myself wondering if the presence of life guards makes otherwise sane people more careless - thinking (or not thinking) that because somebody else is looking out for dangers that they then don't have to. I don't think I've ever seen any on a beach here, but I've hardly ever see anybody (except surfers) swimming either. Then again the north Pacific looks rough even when it's relatively calm, so maybe that puts people off.
Of course storms and storm chasing still makes people stupid, and some people don't seem to believe in the existence of rogue 'sneaker' waves - which can go where you wouldn't expect them (hence the warning signs) and result in people getting swept out to sea every so often.

Back in the 70's there were some truly disturbing public information films shown to children. We need national coverage for sea/ coast awareness. The government department that made these public info films and distributed the films to TV etc. was called the COI and was closed due to govt cuts in 2012. I guess it's up to the RNLI to up their fundraising and campaigning.

I'm an outdoor swimmer (well, bobber-abouter really)...

It shocks me that there is so little accurate information and a lot of scarey but vague information that leads people to make stupid decisions.

For example, people being told that lakes, quarries and reservoirs in the middle of August after a heatwave of a fortnight, will still be 'barely above freezing' when any muppet knows that this is patently untrue..

Which leads them to think that as its clearly a lie, its safe for them to run about, get roasting hot and then dive in...

And whilst the water is NOT 'barely above freezing' it is of course significantly colder than their body temperature (particularly if they dive below the nice warm surface layer of about 2ft), and so they get a shock and that CAN be enough for them to sink, which can be enough to make them panic and drown very very quickly.

Thats just one example of how dumbing down the information leads people to make stupid decisions - I can think of at least two people who almost certainly would NOT have drowned locally, had they understood to get in slowly, acclimatise, consider that they may well be doing more exercise than they are used to, and not go out of their depth..

People are not used to doing risk assessments for themselves - any time I look at somewhere to swim I am looking at:

Access point - can I get in and out safely
Whats up stream and downstream if its a river,
Where will the current take me - river or sea
Whats the bottom like - steep, shallow, mud, rocks, bits of metal?
What else is in the water - boats, other people, anglers, swans, pike? (they scare me) weeds, sunken branches or bits of fence post.
How cold is it?
How warm is it out of the water
How windy is it?

Probably lots of other things besides, because I was taught to do this, because i know water is dangerous and WHY its dangerous and HOW it is dangerous.

And I have a reasonable idea of my own capabilities in the water - not fab actually so I stick to lakes or slow flowing shallow rivers and nothing with a strong current or difficult access/exit.

I do think that alongside the 'not believing the blatant lies we are told about how dangerous something is' we ALSO seem to have a strange believe that we DONT have to take responsibility for ourselves, someone else will... I have no idea why!

I grew up in coastal region- it's difficult to over emphasise how much nagging (!) we had over sea safety.... It did keep us safe though!!

There was always at least 2 drownings every year...on beaches without lifeguards... This was ALWAYS holidaymakers... Often from landlocked regions. Truly tragic.

One of the worse local beaches is lethal... And has a nearby holiday site... NO locals swim there..... Beach looks lovely, but with a very, very steep shelf all year around... I'm talking within 6 feet of shore people are out of their depth. And often a vicious riptide.

You can't educate people who don't have basic common sense.

It is the OCEAN.

I am a SCUBA diver, I have been out with people who HAVE been educated and still they don't respect the dangers. I refuse to buddy with anyone who I don't trust. I would rather skip the dive.

You respect the ocean or you die, and sometimes, you die anyway. It is the OCEAN.