WIBU to make him stay in wet pants?

[Poppyred85]

Partly posting here for traffic, potty training thread seems quiet...
Ds is 3.5y. We have been potty training since end October 2016. We did it by taking him to the loo often and gradually left it longer between trips. He can hold wee for hours and will tell us he needs a wee if he's doing something he's not interested in e.g when out food shopping. Until about 6w ago we would ask him if needed the loo and if it had been a few hours we would take him even if he said no. We then started doing a reward chart to encourage him to tell us. He gets a sticker every time he tells us/nursery/whoever that he needs the loo and when he's got 10 he gets a toy. This seemed to improve things a bit but not much. Most of the time I ask him, if he says no I then remind him about the sticker and he will often then come back about 5 mins later to say he needs a wee. Over the last week we seem to have gone backwards again. Yesterday he held on for about 4 or 5 hours before finally telling me he needed to go after repeated prompts from me. He then went on to do one at the table in the middle of tea. This morning despite regular asking he pooed in his pants. This afternoon he did a wee all over the kitchen floor again after repeatedly saying he didn't need one. I don't know what to do anymore. I have always been patient and said "try and tell mummy next time" but today I got cross and told him off and left him in wet pants for 5 minutes. He's starting pre-school in September, other children at nursery have called him poopy-pants(which he thinks is funny) and I don't know how to move forwards. He was 10 weeks prem but no ongoing issues and is very bright. WIBU to leave him in wet things for 5 or 10 minutes to show him it's better to go in the toilet?

[RiverTam]

I'm afraid I stopped at potty training since October. If you've been training for over 6 months then he's not been ready. Training should take about a week or so, if the child is ready (and no SN, of course). For wees, at any rate.

[teacherwith2kids]

I don't think that leaviong him in wet cklothes is reasonable, but i do think that making him responsible for getting himself chamnged out of wet things into clean ones is fine.

Have a stash of clean, dry clothes that are easy to put ion and take off in known places, both upstairs and downstairs, and a clear place for the wet clothes to go.

'Oh dear. your clothes are wet. You need to go and change them. Thank you.' then ignore and get on with whatever you were doing.

If he soils himself, then you will need to do the main clean up, but he can still put the dirty clothes where they need to be, and put on the clean ones himself.

DS saw nappies / wetting himself as 'the easy option' - definitely easier than stopping playing, taking himself to the toilet etc. If you make wetting himself much more time consuming and disruptive to his play than going to the toilet, then he may see the benefit of going. make the dialogue all about this, too 'Oh, that's a shame. I know this is the part of the game / story / tv programme that you like and will have to miss. You could have chosen to go to the toilet a few minutes ago while x was on, and then you wouldn't have missed anything.'

[Believeitornot]

Yabu

I just took mine to the toilet to do "secret wees" at that age regardless of whether or not they said they needed to go. They get so wrapped up in what they're doing and just don't want to go.

Why punish? He's 3.

[Houseconfusion]

It's not 5 mins in wet pants. Physical damage is nothing as a result yes.

It's humiliation. Embarrassment. Discomfort.

Using punishment to inflict these things on a little child is absolutely wrong.

[teacherwith2kids]

River, i know that it is unfashionable, bt at 3.5 he is very, very likely to be physically ready, especially if he has shown that he can hold wee / poo, and is able to go to the toilet if prompted - and if he has shown evidence that e does know when he needs to go but is choosing to ignore it.

Being WILLING to toilet train is different, as it is something that WE want them to do but which has no clear benefits for the child. DS was not willing for many, many months after he was physically capable - and for him, the bribe of pre-school entry was eventually sufficient. DD was willing as soon as she was physically able.

[HedgehogHedgehog]

YABU i think. Its okay to tell him off but leaving him in wet pants is a physical punishment and i dont think theres really any place for physical punishment in this day and age. Countless studies show that it has no positive effect and may cause psychological harm. Like other peopel are saying i know its hard but try and focus on positive reinforcement. I can see that you just lost your temper with him but i dont think its a good tactic to use on purpose.

[Dutchcourage]

It's humiliation.EmbarrassmentDiscomfort*

This. I would never ever try to make my kids feel this

[Wallywobbles]

My experience of things like this is as soon it's them doing the cleaning up you get the change you hope for.

[Babyzoo]

I'm very much of the belief that they'll do it when they're ready.

I don't think it will hurt him to have had to wait to get cleaned up but I doubt it will achieve anything in the way you're hoping.

[Babyzoo]

I'm very much of the belief that they'll do it when they're ready.

I don't think it will hurt him to have had to wait to get cleaned up but I doubt it will achieve anything in the way you're hoping.

[ladyme]

I'm pretty sure all kids go through a phase of seeing how long they can go between wees. I used to just ask dd to sit on the loo and see what happened if it had been a while and she was absorbed in playing or whatever.

[SauvignonPlonker]

OP, I had a 29-weeker & he was much later to toilet train. He finally got there at 3yr4m actual age (not corrected). ALL of the very early prems I knew from NICU were very late to toilet train. One day, when he was ready, My DS told me he needed to go, went straight to the loo, pulled his pants down & did a wee standing up, right in the loo. In other words, he decided when he needed to go.

I don't agree with punishing him by leaving him in wet/dirty pants - that's horrible behaviour. It's not fair on him to be in soiled pants, especially at nursery where other kids are noticing & he's being picked on.

Instead you could "incentivise" him by "appealing to the better side of his nature". I did this when DS regressed; it did the trick & he "earned" little things by doing a wee in the toilet.

It sounds like you've perhaps started too early & he doesn't recognise the need to go.

I would step back, big time, and put him back in pull-us until he tells you he needs to go.

[MotherOfGlob]

I would concentrate on reward rather than punishment. I know it can be tempting when you're at your wits end though.

DS didn't respond well to sticker charts where he had to wait a while for the 'big' reward at the end, but cracked it when he was given small rewards immediately after he'd used the potty (a sugar-free ice pop/5 mins on iPad).

[JenLindley]

If he hasn't gotten it in 10 months then he isn't ready. Unfortunately you've probably left it too long to go back to pull ups so you'll gave to persevere and hopefully won't he caused too much own issue for him already.

[LadyStoicIsBack]

YABVU as is anyone saying what what harm will it do

Urine is acidic, urine left on bum/bits/inside of thighs burns and then chafes. Understand your frustration but he'll potty train at own rate and inflicting any of aforementioned (all of which develop pretty swiftly if left wet) won't help your cause.

Vis this and all else (dummies, sleeping through night, food refusal etc) the sole thing I used to tell myself to hang onto my sanity was 'they won't be doing this when they are 18' - and funnily enough, none of them are.

So deep breath and just keep persevering and you will get there; just don't 'get there' via being cruel though.

[memyselfandaye]

Trying to humiliate a 3yr old is cruel.

You think you're teaching him a lesson, you are'nt, you're teaching to be anxious about using the toilet, which will lead to more accidents.

[DonkeyOaty]

I would wonder if he was constipated tbh. Impaction can put pressure on the bladder causing leaks and accidents and if it's gone on a while can lead to losing sensation of needing to poo/leaking overflow around impaction

But yes yabu to leave him in wet clothes

[DinosaursRoar]

DS was like this - once he could do it, it seemed like he insisted on holding it in until it was an emergancy situation, and would run to the toilet, sometimes making it, often not. It was as if he thought if he wasn't about to wet himself, then he didn't "need" to go. In reception we still had trouble with this as he was still waiting until about to wet himself to go to the loo, and then if the toilets were already full he couldn't physically wait while they finished. It took him a long time to learn he has to go at breaktimes/lunchtime even if he doesn't feel like he "needs" to go (which in his head is only at the point he's going to wet himself)

We had to insist on "just in case" wees, after a couple of hours if he hasn't tried to go, then you take him to the loo. Insist he (and everyone else) tries to go to the loo before you go out, before meals, before you start the next game etc. You know he must need a wee if it's been 5 hours, expecting him to get through dinner at that point was unlikely to be successful.

But don't leave him in mucky clothes, that's horrible. It's frustrating when you have a child that doesn't get it, or doesn't understand the difference between "need a wee" and "bladder is about to explode" - but you need to not take it out on him. Find ways to help him learn and create habits like "always go for a wee before getting in the car/having lunch/dinner".

[crazywriter]

YABU to do it as punishment. There were times that my DD had to stay in wet pants because of where or when she wet herself. The problem for mine was it didn't bother her. She'd sleep in it (we found out after a few naps of her wetting herself without us realising at first).

He's learning. You don't want it to be negative. What about praising the good? Have you tried that? It didn't work for mine and she just had to learn herself. A year later she's having no accidents at all and is even dry throughout the night.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

I wouldn't keep promoting home, I'd tell him to go to the toilet on the hour every hour so he gets used to going.

[MatildaTheCat]

Can I suggest you stop asking him and just firmly take him to the loo at regular intervals? Maybe hourly at first or two hourly up to a maximum of 3-4 hours. He's probably either ignoring or missing the signals.

Success tends to breed success.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

By 3.5 the consequence is having to clean up, not sitting in wet/ dirty stuff. if he is not going to the toilet because he is being lazy, then if he has accidents in the house insist he goes to the bathroom as soon as he says/ you realise he's had an accident and remove his wet clothes, get in the shower, let you shower him (not hair obviously), get out, he has to dry himself (you finish drying), he has to go upstairs and get himself clean dry clothes and dress himself, then he gets kitchen roll and does his best to clean the accident up off the floor (you might have to finish the job of course).

That way having an accident is way more of an interruption to playing / watching TV than a quick toilet trip.

If he cares about clothes (favourite items) you can also have less well loved / plain boring cheap tracksuits as "emergency" clothes to be worn after accidents but let him choose his own clothing when getting dressed in the morning.

Only if you are fairly sure he just cba to go rather than doesn't know when he needs to - better than leaving him in wet or shitty clothes mainly because it causes him a lot more inconvenience!

He may though genuinely not know when he needs to go, given the way you've loosely routine trained him - in which case its hardly his fault and you need to go back to bare bum in the house and stay in for 3 days, never ask him and tell him he is in charge of keeping the floor and furniture clean and dry by using the toilet - praise and bribe.

My older two DC were easy to train at age 2 but my youngest was 3.5 and only trained in response to a big bribe (there was something he really wanted and so I said OK once you've had no accidents for a whole day - it worked, though he had the odd accident for a while he was motivated for the first time. Prior to that he's said he liked being a baby and wanted to wear nappies for ever :o

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

** prompting him

[MammouthTask]

Dutch do you ever punish your dcs?
because the whole point of punishment is to make the person feel embarrassed and unconfortable so that they will prefer to do xx rather than being punished.

As such, I can't see that being an issue.
However, I don't think that's the best way to get on about it. As previous posters have said, send him to get changed my himself, put the stuff in the wash etc.. If he has soiled himself, then see if he can clean himself but otherwise, please help him. It can be quite hard work to do on yourself (dc2 never managed to do it on his own).
In effect, you want the consequence of having to deal with being wet being negative enough that he doesn't want to do it.