Baby left in car

[MooPointCowsOpinion]

On my way back to our car, My husband noticed a baby in the car parked next to ours. Alone, two front windows were slightly open, he looked about 12 months. We fretted a bit, stayed sat next to him waiting for 10 minutes and no-one came. So I called the police on 101, and they immediately put me through to 999.

The woman arrived back at her car a minute before the police did. I told her I'd called the police, and she couldn't leave her baby like that. She cried and said she was having a shit day and needed to get the item she' bought (big and bulky box, maybe a buggy?) to the car. I hugged her, cried with her, and said I understood but she still can't do that, and then directed the police to her and left.

Was I being a busy body? AIBU to think it's illegal to do that?

[nuttymango]

Last week I left some eggs on the back seat in full sun all day (I forgot them), when I cracked them open to see what they were like they were pretty much poached. It does get hot enough in the UK to make people really ill in cars.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

"Today 13:32 Gottagetmoving

babies who have been taken in hijacked cars are taken by accident, no one is trying to steal them

Taken by accident....How reassuring. hmm"


Yes, you can be reassured by the knowledge that No one is going to break into your car looking for your handbag but accidently steal your baby instead

[chemenger]

The risk of unusual events is very difficult to determine. In my industry we work in risks of 1 fatality per million years on a regular basis, the events we are modelling have never happened and hopefully never will. However, once we establish credible scenrios there is no reason to believe that they will not happen tomorrow. It demonstrates a very poor understanding of risk assessment to equate a low probability with something never happening.
The acceptability of risk is another interesting field. We would perceive any risk to vulnerable people (eg babies) as less acceptable that the same risk applied to able bodied adults - so what is in Freedom's opinion (and I'd like to see their calculations) a very low risk might well be considered unacceptable by society.
Risk is a combination of frequency and consequence but it is not a straightforward relationship. Either a very high frequency or a very serious consequence can result in a high risk. In the case of the death of a baby the consequence would be regarded as very serious. The factors which influence this are, as above the vulnerability of the victim, their lack of choice in the situation and their lack of control. So I would argue, from a risk assessment point of view, that the hazard to an infant in a car alone is very much not negligible and that to argue otherwise shows a profound lack of understanding of the concept of risk.

[Gottagetmoving]

Yes, we are. It is a different matter, in that driving a baby in a car is far more likely to result in injury or death than leaving the baby alone in the car while you go into a shop. Finally, you are getting it!

I agree that it is more likely for a baby to die in a driven car. I do get that.
However, leaving a baby in a car whilst you do something else is negligent. Driving a car with your family aboard is not negligent.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

Forgetting your baby in the car is a recognised phenomenon and you're as likely to experience it as anyone else, stopfuckingshoutingatme. Granted, it is very rare.

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

a recognised phenomenon

maybe mine were too bloody loud and screamed all the time

I just cant get my head around it.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

One of the instances I wanted to leave my baby was buying a saw from screwfix to saw down a bush. A D- saw, so awkward shape. It was March so heat not a factor. I parked in the car park and thought- I need to get him out, carry the car seat in (he was asleep- he would've woken up also) put him down whilst I write out the order form, get him over to the counter to pay then carry him and the saw out which seemed a bit dangerous, angle wise (the teeth are not covered)

Anyway, I didn't leave him because someone might call the police. There are also, plenty of other solutions to this problem. But one solution was to leave him there and I was sorely tempted.

[chemenger]

This is an interesting factsheet about this situation.

www.childsafetyeurope.org/publications/info/factsheets/children-in-cars.pdf

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

Well it's rare and you haven't experienced it so fair play you don't understand it. But presumably you haven't experienced a psychotic breakdown before, but you know it happens.

[WindPowerRanger]

Death is not the only risk to a baby left in a car.

Profound discomfort because of the heat or sun shining in, panic fear (no sense of time = no idea how long parent has been gone), thirst, prickly heat, heatstroke/sunstroke, needing to go to the loo or being wet/soiled for a significant period, getting out of car and coming to harm, abduction etc etc.

Normally, we bend over backwards to avoid our children experiencing any of these. So why leave a child in a car where one or other of these things could happen?

[srslylikeomg]

I have left mine in the car. Do leave them in the car. Windows down, not in direct sun, UV shades up, in the UK. I think the chances of them being hit while walking in the car park or me killing them for screaming in the supermarket vs being kidnapped is far higher. Personally I would assess the risk to leaving them in the car while i pop into the shops or pay for petrol to be virtually nil.

[MumOfTwoMasterOfNone]

You had the best interests of a child at heart and definitely did the right thing

[murmuration]

In that Washington Post article they explain the forgetting like lots of slices of swiss cheese all lining up on a hole - the people who forgot were doing something weird and different and in their brains they had left their child at nursery already, or their partner had them at home, or things like that. They literally didn't realise their child was in the car. I found it absolutely terrifying.

If you've ever nearly turned towards work instead of wherever you were going, or picked up the wrong kitchen implement when making an unusual meal, it's just the same phenomena - just a larger and much more tragic scale.

[dizzyfucker]

Gotta I think the point is it's not as hot in the UK as countries where there have been deaths and it's the heat killing the babies isn't it? There isn't anything life threatening about "just" leaving a baby in a car for 10 mins alone: it's the heat that's the killer

It's not just about death. Dehydration can lead to long term health complications, so while the uk might not be hot enough to kill. It can harm. Also there are more incidents in the USA compared to other countries with high summer temperatures. So the statistics are not correlated to heat but more lifestyle and the percentage of the population with cars or even the use of carseats.
The summer temperatures in the UK is increasing. As it does, unless people are aware of the dangers, the danger will become more real.

[murmuration]

Oh, and it's aparently become much more common with rear-facing car seats, as you can't see the child from the front seat. Obviously, rear-facing statistically is safer with both risks combined, but it did up this one just a bit!

[randomer]

I used to try and make things ok for everybody and therefore would have stayed and worried for longer. Nowadays I would weigh up a situation....intervene and let professionals deal with it. I would have done exactly as you did.

[PersianCatLady]

You definitely did the right thing.

Even if the baby was not at risk from dying (as FreedomIsInPeril claims) I cannot imagine how uncomfortable it would feel to be strapped in a car seat, unable to move in a hot car.

[ButtMuncher]

chemager - has it bang on. Risk isn't purely probability - it takes into account severity of consequence.

Freedom - I get what you're saying, but you're focusing solely on 'well babies haven't died in hot cars' to prove your 'risk' point but are kind of overlooking the fact that babies in hot cars may not die, but they can be very much rendered poorly short/long term by doing so. That's presumably why the majority of us would have made steps to get the child removed - because the consequence of not doing so could be very serious.

[FreedomIsInPeril]

No, I'm not focusing on that at all. What I'm saying is leaving a baby in a car for 10 mins in the UK will not kill, and will not harm.
You would think nothing of DRIVING on a summers day for an hour or more with the same baby in the same car seat, and you wouldn't be concerned that they will be harmed somehow. What is the difference? And don't say air con, because not everyone has it or uses it.

[FreedomIsInPeril]

However, leaving a baby in a car whilst you do something else is negligent. Driving a car with your family aboard is not negligent

Why, necessarily? One is far more harmful than the other, so why is the risky one ok and the less risky automatically negligent? Doesn't it depend on the actual factors at play and not some blanket sense of arbirtrary "wrongness"?

[Daisygarden]

I think that you have hopefully broken what may already be, or would be, a very bad habit.

Yes it's awkward taking a baby around with you. I've got 3DCs and there are memorable times I have struggled massively getting them around and about with bulky stuff or shopping etc - but never have I ever considered leaving them in the car.

In this situation the lady could have phoned ahead to the store to explain and have someone ready to bring the item out for her, or asked in store for a member of staff to assist her to the car. Failing that, she would have had to make arrangements to return for the item separately.

It might be too tempting to make a habit of it. Hopefully she won't do it again. We all have shit days but it does not excuse leaving children in cars alone.

YANBU. My mum is definitely a busybody when it comes to children and has no shame about stepping in. I don't think you should feel remotely guilty about this, it's her behaviour (shit day or not) that was in the wrong, not yours.

[ayeokthen]

So having a shit day is suddenly an excuse for putting your kid at serious risk? Bullshit. Nobody's perfect, I know I'm not, but leaving your kid in a car is a choice not a mistake. Op fwiw I think you did the right thing.

[Daisygarden]

Freedom it's not a good habit to get in to at all, leaving children in cars. Who's to say that next time it wouldn't be 20 mins instead of 10? Bearing in mind OP has no way of knowing how long this child had already been left when they spotted it.

What about their physical wellbeing? Choking on sick, or a button? Being taken?

[DinosaursRoar]

Dontyoulovecalpol - true, but they may well be more likely to try to steal your car if you've left the window open a little bit to let air in for your baby so they don't cook - and if they don't want to steal the child, they could just leave the baby somewhere and hope they don't come to any harm. Which has happened this summer already. here - he just left the baby on some random doorstep

Babies dying in cars is very rare, as is children being stolen from cars - because leaving babies in cars is very rare in the UK, it is not a normal thing to see a child alone in a car.

The last 4 times DH and I have had a night out, we've left after the DCs were in bed and when we got back the babysitter has said they've slept the whole time we were out. The house hasn't caught fire, no one has tried to break in. Neither child has woken up looking for us, or been sick or anything. I'm not going to trust that because it's very unlikely anything bad would happen if I just go for dinner and leave the DCs alone in the house that I can just stop hiring a babysitter when I want a night out. Because it is highly unlikely that anything bad will happen, doesn't make it ok to just assume nothing bad will happen.

OP - if you are still reading, you did the right thing. If she just got a telling off by the police, hopefully she'll have the good sence not to leave her baby again, it's not that hot today, but this week has had some very hot days.