To think not being very good at your job is not a reason to be plastered across the national press

[callherwillow]

teacher struck off

Ok. I get some teachers are rubbish. I understand many people are poor at what they do, and that should be dealt with by earnings, disciplinaries, even dismissals.

But does it really need to be plastered across the press?

[callherwillow]

It's not closed door if someone is dismissed, struck off and therefore this information held on a database, though. The only reason it's in the press is because people find it interesting. It isn't there so that parents can smile with satisfaction and recognise Johnny won't have a bad teacher!

[LikeDylanInTheMovies]

op it isn't the outcome, it is the process that needs to be held up to scrutiny. How and why the decision to strike off or not was reached.

[ilovesooty]

Interestingly she taught at an academy. I suspect that in any improvement programme she found herself with little support.

[woodvillain]

The hearings on fitness to teach are available for all to see on the GTCS website. I don't know if that is the case for teachers in England and Wales..

[woodvillain]

Oh and schools in Scotland are often academies but that's not the same as an Academy in England

[BeckyMcDonald]

Hearings like this are held in public because the public have a fundamental right to know if the people teaching them are not fit to do so. Public hearings must be allowed to be reported by the press or else they're not public, are they? If that teacher was teaching my child, and there were missiles being thrown in the classroom, her lessons were so terrible that a colleague was shocked, and she refused help, then too bloody right I'd want to know that something had been done about it and the only way for me to find that out would be to either attend the hearing or read about it in the press. The school is unlikely to publicise it, is it?

[ilovesooty]

Thanks woodvillain

I did wonder why she seemingly had no union representation though.

[callherwillow]

If that was your child becky would the situation really have been helped by having it in the news?

In the same way that when something awful happens with social services, does it help anyone when the social worker is vilified and has death threats made aimed at her and her family?

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

I know you're actually wanting a discussion on the said case, but I can't be the only one wondering. What were the parents doing to stop their little darlings throwing chairs around. Teachers aren't allowed to control their pupils or parents are running up to the school complaing that soneone raised their voice to their Poppets
I wouldn't be a teacher for a million dollars a day never mind a week

[JudyCoolibar]

Do children need to be disciplined to know that throwing chairs is both wrong and dangerous though? Isn't that something that they should be taught at home?

Well, obviously. But what's the relevance of that? It doesn't absolve teachers from the need to maintain discipline.

[woodvillain]

It also means that if you google the school, either as an applicant for a job there or maybe as a parent of a pupil potentially, you will find these reports coming up at the top of your searches. Who wants to work at a school or have a child there if pupils throw furniture etc..?
I am all for transparency but apart from the individual whose reputation is in tatters, the school doesn't come out of it smelling of roses either.

[kaitlinktm]

I wonder what the "enormous support" she was given was? I know it mentions another teacher taking on her classes and mentoring - but another person just taking over your class can be seen by pupils as undermining and can make it more difficult when the original teacher takes over again.

I also wonder what the mentoring was. I have heard of people being "supported" and "mentored" when in fact what happens is they were told they were rubbish and that the children misbehaved and to do something about it.

I am not saying that is what happened in this case - just that what some SLT view as support can in fact end up being quite the reverse.

I would say though that when classes are so out of control that they are throwing chairs, it can hint at a lack of visible (to pupils) support from management. I wouldn't have dared thrown a chair at school, even though some of my teachers were a bit boring, because I knew the powers that be (including my parents) would have hauled me over the coals for it.

[kaitlinktm]

It doesn't absolve teachers from the need to maintain discipline

Very true - however there are some pupils who really don't have anything to lose.

Throw a chair - what sanctions are available? Not allowed to send them out, not allowed to send to Head of Year - only to head of department who also has a class of the same year group with all the pupil's cronies in. Two classes disrupted - because someone threw a chair.

Give a detention - such pupils are generally booked up weeks in advance (24 hours notice must be given) and don't turn up anyway. If they don't turn up, what do you do? Procedure is to ring parents and re-set. Then you have a 15 min conversation with a parent who blames you for their child's poor behaviour "you should maintain discipline - but no he can't do detention because he has a paper round. etc etc"

By this time several days have passed and you have had to teach said pupils a few more times - maybe he has thrown more chairs in this time and there are several detentions in the offing, which he won't attend.

Probably you have more than one such pupil (look at the amount of teacher time/work they generate, this is before any prep/marking/admin is done)?

Eventually, if you are lucky, the matter is escalated and the pupil MAY (only may) get a short-term exclusion (if your school does exclusions that is). A few days on the Xbox and then back to more chair throwing. Happy Days!

[NoahVale]

i read about it before this thread.
i dont see Why the thread should be pulled
the information is on the BBC website for all to see

[BeckyMcDonald]

If a social worker is vilified and gets death threats, that is the fault of the people vilifying her / him and the people issuing death-threats.

Teachers who are just 'not very good at their jobs' get sacked and you mostly hear no more about it. If a teacher is atrocious enough to get struck off then too right it helps if the case is publicised. Otherwise, what's to stop them going and applying for a teaching job? Doing private tutoring? Nothing.

[NoahVale]

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jun/02/english-teacher-gillian-scott-bored-pupils-breadalbane-academy-scotland-general-teaching-council

[NoahVale]

diffrent take on the Throwing chairs incident

[lalalalyra]

I think the reason it is in the news is that it's so rare for it to get to that point. I've worked with a fair number of not very good teachers and I've seen HT's absolutely despair at trying to deal with a teacher they'd been landed with (because of where we live I spent some time in a few Scottish schools and HT didn't/don't get the choice of taking on a NQT under the guaranteed job scheme) because it's extremely difficult to get rid of them.

There are some hideous children in schools, and some parents are appalling with what they expect from schools - I worked with one child whose mother screamed in my face because she'd expected us to have sorted her kid out by now (it was Christmas and the child was in P1...).

However, that doesn't take away the fact that there are some people who are not equipped to be teachers, and it doesn't sound like this lady was equipped to be one. The problem is, especially when there's such a shortage (and the guaranteed job scheme was in place) of teachers even very, very poor quality teachers can have jobs and it just makes life difficult for all of the other staff in a school.

[NeedACleverNN]

Now that gives the story in a completely different light

[callherwillow]

There's a few things that would stop them getting another post.

I can't speak for Scotland but in England and Wales you have to use your last headteacher as a reference.

Plus you have a teaching number. Heads can check through this number that the qualification is valid.

Furthermore numerous people have stated they haven't seen this. If we are relying on the press to make sure banned teachers don't apply for jobs then it's not very reliable!

[woodvillain]

You cannot teach in Scotland without GTCS registration so that would be curtains for anyone who had registration removed, however I don't think it would stop someone doing private tutoring.

[MajorasMask]

Actually, as someone who wanted to get into teaching in England, I was impressed by the strict standards in Scotland. I was hired as a TA and pushed into being an unqualified teacher (I do have an English degree, but no QTS) - to be held publicly accountable, I think, is quite important when we're looking at QTS being abolished.

The full transcript of the hearing is online here:

//www.gtcs.org.uk/web/FILES/teacher-regulation/gillian-scott-outcome2.pdf

Perhaps some people think it cruel that I'm posting more details. The lady is obviously distressed, but she made no attempt to come to the tribunal. Her dad took it upon himself to plead her case, and she submitted a late email statement. The GTCS wanted her to cooperate throughout, and they accommodated her dad's requests as much as they could, they wanted evidence that she cared about the tribunal and about teaching.

It also details the specifics around her lessons and the SLT support, for those interested. Honestly, I have every sympathy for her and her dad's argument focuses on her whistleblowing some years before. I don't doubt that was a factor, but it can't account for her responses to any constructive criticism of her teaching. The staff at that school were pulling out all the stops and they understood it was distressing for her, but they couldn't let her continue teaching.

[callherwillow]

We don't know that. We only know what the staff have claimed. But in any case, my concern is once the dust has settled and you're ready to get on with your life you can't. Because you're on google for time immortal.

[NoahVale]

well she will have to do something completely different obviously.

most prospective employers arent in the habit of googling people, are they?

as long as she isnt planning of becoming a teacher, she could become a shop assistant for example, do admin work. etc.,

[ilovesooty]

Lots of prospective employers Google applicants.