Really disappointed in DS's Yr 6 teacher...

[usernamesarenotimportant]

I'm probably going to get a lot of YABU but that's ok. I just want to rant a bit.

It is DS's Birthday so he brought in some sweets like all the kids do. However there is a child who has been really nasty to DS throughout the whole year (violently). To the point that DS had to be educated at home for a month. It's all a very long story. He absolutely didn't want to give this boy a sweet. I assumed he wouldn't have to? His teacher said he wouldn't be allowed to give his sweets out if he wasn't going to give to all the children. My DS said that he wouldn't give the sweets out. I thought that was fair enough. But then his teacher seemed to pester him about how that wasn't really fair as the class had got excited about getting sweets and he had taken that away from them. DS said he would give them the sweets outside of the school gates so she confiscated them and said he won't be and that "considering the year he has had, she is surprised by the way he is deciding to treat somebody" no. no. no. no! that's really unreasonable in my opinion, this isn't some poor little boy who my DS is deciding to exclude, this is the child that violently attacked my son many times throughout the year and couldn't give a shit about it as he kept doing it repeatedly. She also wouldn't let him hand out his part invites in her classroom as he was the only boy not invited... But also wouldn't give him the invites back (they have to give them to the teacher at the start of the day). I'm just absolutely appalled. Is it me, or is this not exactly fair?

[ApostrophesMatter]

The teacher should not have kept the sweets and the invitations. They should have been returned to the DC to give out at home time outside school premises.

It would have been kind to give the other DC a sweet but I'm with OP about the party invitation. No way would a child who had made my child's life a misery be invited to a party. It's daft to expect it to happen.

As an adult I would not invite someone who bullied me in the workplace to a party why should it be different for DCs? Children have very little control over their lives and one choice they should be allowed is who they socialise with.

[sashh]

No, this child is still just as awful, still the odd verbal comment, but no physical stuff. DS decided to just put up with the odd comments until he leaves. Which he shouldn't have to.

How exactly do you think this child has gone from physically attacking your child to just the odd comment?

You are right your son should not have to put up with it, no one should but looking from the outside I imagine the teacher has spent all year working with this child and now it could potentially be ruined because of being excluded.

I totally understand why she took the sweets, you know what kids are like, I doubt your son could give out sweets and the whole class accept them without it coming to the attention of this child.

[blueskywithclouds]

1. You need to get the sweets etc back (teacher may have just completely forgotten about them)
   
   
2. Teacher may have tried to persuade your son to give out the sweets because she felt bad that he would rather give up his birthday sweets. I would have just left him to it but at this point in the year, when teachers are dog tired, she may have just made a stupid mistake and then messed up trying to put it right.
   
   
3. You are seeing this as worse than it is. This is understandable as your child has had a horrible time. It is colouring your judgement though.
   
   
4. Teachers actually have very little control over children who have extreme needs. Normally, violent children are taken out of class and excluded in some way and it is up to management to deal with it. Sadly, if management don't back up a teacher then there is little that can be done.
   
   
5. I really hope that you complained to the governors if your boy was treated badly.
   
   
6. Hopefully your son is feeling better about leaving school and making a fresh start. You have both had a horrible year. I agree with what many posters have said but I do think that when our children are targeted, it brings out the tigress in us!

[Justaskingnottelling]

Once again I was talking about having sympathy for the OP, not about the exclusion, but about the lecture. The teacher could have handled this better in my view by explaining, not telling off.

It's understandable that someone wouldn't want a person that had bullied them to come to their party. To tell them off wouldn't change their understanding of the situation but would just make them feel like crap and that their feelings don't matter.

[WetPaint4]

This as been such a frustrating thread to read with so many people missing the point completely.

OP you're not being unreasonable. Teacher was absolutely correct in not allowing your son to exclude the bully, she has a role to play and you've accepted that. However, once she'd explained this to your son and explained why, she should left it alone, then returned his property later. Your son agreed to deal with this outside of school, it's NOT her place to tell him he can't and refuse to give the stuff back. It's also NOT her place to make any further comments about who he has at his party or take him on a guilt trip and I can't see why she couldn't discuss this with you at the end of the day, especially considering the obviously sensitive nature of the relationship between the two boys.

A simple "I'm sorry young man, we cannot and will not exclude any child in school so you will have to hand these out in your own time" would have been absolutely sufficient. Beyond that, her involvement was not needed.

[MoggyP]

I read the opening post as saying that she was simply pointing out that it's nasty to exclude one person, and that he (as recepient of nasty behaviour before) should realise its impact.

And you shouldn't have set him up for a fall like this.

You know, from the invitation incident, that excluding one child from a classroom event is Not On. Trying to exclude them a second time is plain wrong and close to bullying conduct.

[Spottytop1]

Did she purposely not give them back or was it accidental as she has other things to think about that are a higher priority than sweets and invites?

[GoblinLittleOwl]

Does it occur to you that your child's intransigent attitude may have something to do with the treatment he has received this year? Things don't happen in isolation.

[branofthemist]

I haven't read them while thread just most and the ops.

Op I know expectancy what you have been through. Very long story short, We moved Dd because of a violent bully and 6 months later, he was moved from the old one into her new one.

Within four months the police had to come and charge him with assault.

I totally get how you feel. However, if I had sent Dd with sweets on her birthday I would totally get and expect this boy to be given one. Schools and teachers can't exclude one child. I can't see how you thought this was ok.

Again with the party invitations, I totally get that you don't want him there. But the school is just inviting a shit storm if they had done this. There are weekly threads on here about people complaining because their child has been excluded.

Wether it's right or wrong, schools are in a really bad position when it comes to invites and things like this when a child is excluded.

Before being disappointed or angry at her. Calm down until Monday and speak to her about why she kept them. I am sure she has no intention of keeping them permanently and perhaps has a reason. She may have caught your eye. But she may not have also remembered at that minute.

She may need advice as she thinks this will stir everything up again and cause more problems for your son.

It's a very difficult situation for you and you have my sympathy. But I also understand the school is in a bad position.

[ApostrophesMatter]

Does it occur to you that your child's intransigent attitude may have something to do with the treatment he has received this year? Things don't happen in isolation.

Classic victim blaming.

[Nataleejah]

I understand OP's feelings towards the bully. I'd want to throttle the little shit. However, deliberate exclusion is counterproductive - that would certainly wouldn't make "Jimmy" act nicer.
I'd ask the teacher to give ME the sweets back.

[JessicaRabbit3]

Who's to say the teacher pestered the child to give everyone them that's just want DS said she could of said no you can't exclude 'Jimmy' either you give everyone one or not at all but you will be then excluding everyone and left it at that. I hardly doubt teacher would continue to pester a child to hand out sweets all day when she has a class to teach

[Liz09]

I can totally understand where your son is coming from not wanting to share his sweets and certainly not wanting to invite the kid to his party (he's under absolutely no obligation to invite the kid, even if he invites everyone else). However, I can also understand that the teacher has an obligation to keep things civil and even-grounded in class. If she had allowed your son to give the sweets to everyone but this child, or to hand out invitations to everyone but this child in front of him, it wouldn't have been very nice. Not for the other child (bully or not), and not for your child who may then find himself targeted even further.

[JessicaRabbit3]

What' even sorry stolen the name Jimmy it's easier to describe.

[Oblomov16]

I agree. Teacher should have given invites and sweets straight back.

I am surprised by many of the comments on here. Op's poor ds. The teacher can not let him give out sweets to all but the bully because it would be exclusion. But remember ds has been badly bullied. Don't forget this. So teacher should have given them back there and then.

But teacher didn't need to take it further by talking to ds about it. She has thus created an even bigger issue. Teacher knows the history And could have been more sensitive.

Can't believe teacher kept the invites. Why not return them to mum at the end of the day with a knowing nod of ' I couldn't give these out because ...', then mum could have given them out there and then?

Mind you, this is year 6. Mums don't normally give invites out.

[Coffeelover56]

I agree with WetPaint.

Perhaps your son should have just handed them out to the kids at break time rather than in the classroom. Also, I think the teacher is on a power trip here - she can't decide who goes/doesn't go to your DS's party ffs.

[Witchend]

I've been bullied and so has one of my dc and I still think the teacher is right.

The only way your teacher knew the plan of excluding the bully is if your ds told her. Probably told his classmates too. If she had allowed it she would be telling the whole class that it's fine to do that.
She'd also have to allow it to happen again, so next week when the bully comes in to give to all except your ds, she'd have to allow it.

I'd guess the "going on" was mostly because the other children were now upset and annoyed because they were expecting sweets and she could see that they would be fall outs from the rest of the class to your ds' detriment.

The issue came when he announced his intention and you said okay. You should have told him at that point that he couldn't do that.

On the invites I wouldn't have invited the bully, but most year 6 parties are down to small groups anyway. Inviting all except one looks very pointed. And teachers don't have the tine to look through and check invites so I suspect he announced that too.

[WetPaint4]

Bit convenient, that she confiscated the sweets, told him he couldn't hand them out outside of school and then just 'forgot' to give them back. If she knows her memory is a bit shaky, why not say to the boy "come and get them from me after school" or leave herself a note to talk to the parent.

Wasn't fair to put her in that position but once there she had the simple way and the too involved way of dealing with it and she picked the latter, that's why I don't believe she forgot. She also chose to not give him back the invitations there and then.

[Theearthmoved]

I agree with most pps that re teacher did the only thing she could do. Have you asked her for the sweets and invitations back? I am sure she has them ready to return to you and she hasn't confiscated them completely. But really she shouldn't have been put in this position when I am sure she has many more important things to do. For what it's worth in dc's school they have banned the bringing in of sweets and cakes for birthdays which I'm sure makes everyone's life easier (for health reasons btw.)

Whilst I do understand that you and your son would not want the bully at his party I also wanted to say that I am the parent of the child who always gets excluded. I have adopted dc who have emotional and behavioural needs and the primary years were very difficult for them. On one occasion the whole class was allowed to change in the classroom into party clothes and go straight to a party from school and my dc was the only one not invited. He could not understand and went home at normal pick up time in floods of tears. He was not allowed on school trips and recently when he wasn't allowed to do a sleepover he said he was 'heartbroken.' I was completely ostracised by lots of parents although some were kind and understanding even when their child was involved in the latest incident.

Often it is the case that schools are not managing the problem of children with special needs especially behaviour eg getting in appropriate support early, referring to the right agencies or finding alternative provision and if your son had to be educated at home it sounds like the problem was not dealt with appropriately.

[TTwidow]

Maybe the teacher wanted to give them back to you rather than you DS so that she could have a conversation with you about it. Can you arrange to meet with her on Monday after school?

[gonzo155]

I don't think she could have returned sweets or invites straight away - to prevent the OPs son just handing them out himself and excluding the child.

Probably meant to return it at the end of the day and forgot.

You can't expect a teacher to conclude in excluding anyone. If you don't want everyone to participate then hand things out after school.

[Dairybanrion]

Cannot believe some of the comments here.
Her son was bullied to the extent that he went to hospital and had to be homeschooled!!? And some people are saying his 'intransigent' attitude mAy have caused it!! Oh my god.
If your child/sister/brother/parent was bullied for so long and so badly would you want them at your party?! To fuck you would!
Teacher could not allow all sweets except bully, teacher could not allow all invites except to bully. That's condoning exclusion.
. Doesn't matter who's at receiving end, it's exclusion and it's wrong.
However, to keep bleating on at him for wanting to not hand out the sweets?! For FECK sake. Did she miss the part where he was mercilessly attacked by that child?
Where's the empathy?
Where's the ' I can see your point. But it would also be wrong to just exclude 'bully name'.
Here's your sweets back.
Then teacher should have then come outside and chatted to Mammy.

[HighwayDragon1]

Yanbu to not invite the bully, yanbu to not give the sweets to a bully.

YABU to expect the teacher to knowingly exclude a child. She either gives to everyone or to noone, it's just the way it is. As for not giving them back at the end pf the day,it's likely she just forgot.

[LynetteScavo]

When my DD was in Y4 there were two children in the class she didn't want to give sweets to on her birthday, so she decided herself not to give out sweets. Aged 9 she knew it was everyone or no one.

[CrazyDuchess]

This thread just totally highlights what the hell is wrong with MN at times - totally misreading the OP and minimising the effects off bullying on her son..... you cannot compare not being given a sweet being the same as the OP DS treatment at the hands of the bully!

OP - YANBU. I'd get the sweets back but I'd also complain that it is unacceptable for the teacher to make your son feel so uncomfortable and ultimately confiscate his property without good reason and for not speaking to you at the end of the day!

Be thankful there is only a few more weeks at that school!