To not do it when asked

[hazell42]

I have always hated housework. I'm not the hoarder next door, or anything, but I do enjoy a bit of clutter. Sterile minimalism makes me itch.
I have had 2 husbands who could not understand my indifference towards 'home-making'. 'Surely, you want a tidy house,' they would say, as they naively tried to train me to the standards they expected.
I don't have a husband any more.
The more they tried to persuade/force me to be a housewife, the less I wanted to do it. In fact, without their constant nagging, I would have done much more than I did.
Now, six years after my last divorce, I thought that things were good. I clean when I want, I do a bit and leave a fair bit more. House is more or less clean most of the time, but fairly cluttered quite often. I think it has a homely, lived in feel (honestly, not at all horrorshow tv programme standard)
This morning my son (16 and moody) said, 'Surely you want it to be tidy?'
Arggh!
He has decided that I am not up to scratch and other (non-working, domestic godess type) mothers manage to have the house pristine at all times.
Am tempted to take the same tack as I did with husbands, though, obviously, without showing him the door, which was to stubbornly refuse to lift a finger anytime they mentioned the 'state' of the house, and instead point them in the direction of the hoover.
What do you think?

[carefreeeee]

I would be inclined to compromise - spend an afternoon together getting everything clean to begin with and throw away some junk. Then make the effort to both keep it nice. Then after your son moves out you can go back to your old ways if you like. (Same would apply for a husband too - always compromise if they prefer tidier - but the work should be shared out)

If he can't be bothered to help you at least a bit, then he obviously isn't that bothered. Especially as one of your posts implied that it was more bother to persuade the kids to help out, than to do it yourself. If they really thought it was grim they should be keen to help out in some way?

[hazell42]

That's it, exactly! I remember my first husband coming home one day and inspecting the house. Downstairs - fine. He went upstairs and checked there - fine. He came back down and asked why I hadn't done any washing - told him I had washed it, ironed it and put it away. Husband number 1 ground his teeth and did another tour of the house. Eventually he opened the kitchen bin, pulled out the third full bin bag and said, 'For God's sake, couldn't you have even emptied the bin!' before flouncing out of the house and off to the pub.
I know that my house is generally clean, not always tidy, but certainly not unhygienic. I don't keep animals because I think its horrible to be cleaning up pet hair from the furniture. If you are picturing piles of newspapers or carboot treasures, you are wrong. Son invites friends over all the time.
Personally I have always thought that housework is a convenient stick to beat someone with, because you will always find something that hasn't been done

[MargotLovedTom]

Does your son keep his bedroom clean and tidy? Does he tidy up after himself in communal areas of the home?

[KitKats28]

I would've been worried if my 16 year old son had thought the house needed cleaning. It would've been pig squalor before he noticed! I think I would have had a good look at it and then done something about it together.

My daughter's friend spends a lot of time here and when I asked why she never goes to his house, it's because it's a tip and he is embarrassed to have friends round. My house is far from a show home but it's clean and tidy. I don't think keeping your space nice is an affront to feminism!

[MargotLovedTom]

X post. Your first husband sounds like a prick.

[ValhallaAwaits]

I think Magicpaintbrush may have quite a severely OCD husband to be fair.

[hazell42]

Son's bedroom, generally pretty clean and tidy. However, he considers anything outside his bedroom door not his responsibility.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Why have all these men considered housework to be your job and why have you let them / chosen such dinosaurs?

Don't bring your son up to be a sexist pig. Bite the bullet and involve him (and other DCs) in housework, then allocate everyone their own tasks. Yes it's more effort than it saves at first but isn't that true of DCs learning to do anything? Doesn't mean you can wriggle out of it being your job as a parent to teach them.

[sharknad0]

It's possible your son picked up on the fights about housework you had with your ex. Otherwise, I agree that the house must be something if a 16 year old take notice.

My teenagers and their friends have popped in when the house was an amazing mess more than once (think a rainy afternoon with a 4 year old and his best friends locked inside) and have never noticed anything, as long as the fridge is not empty.

[themoomah]

My son used to be like that - didn't want to help with the housework but more than happy to moan about the state of the place. Since he's had his own home, family and a job that takes up most of his free time he has miraculously changed his views on the importance of housework. Someone once said to me that there's no-one as holier-than-thou as a teenage boy and I rather think they were right.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Is it his responsibility though? You say you have clutter and you like it - so presumably it's not his stuff, so not his responsibility. Could he help clean if you tidied your clutter away?

[TrueBlueYorkshire]

I have a friend who describes her house similar to yours. It is actually a rubbish tip that should be condemned. Is your son embarrassed to bring friends around because of the amount of mess?

This isn't about men vs women, its about an adult taking care of their child.

[hazell42]

No, not his responsibility, which is why I wouldn't ask him to clean up.

I think I am my own worst enemy, because I have always told people I am a terrible housewife, when in fact I am probably an averagely competent housewife (god, I hate that word) who just doesn't like it much and resents being made to feel its her role in life to clean up other people's crap.

And of course having used those words myself, I can hardly deny it when other people say it back to me.

My mum was a rotten housewife, we all loved her regardless, including my dad who worshipped the ground she walked on. So what, if she wasn't Martha Stewart, Nigella Lawson or Anthea bleedin Turner.

I am a single parent of four (2 grown up) kids, I work bloody hard, am always available for my kids, whenever they need me. Honestly, does it really matter that today there were three plates in the sink and a pile of CDs on the floor?

That makes me sound defensive. I just can't see why ordinary levels of untidiness can make some people so bloody uppity.

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

"Have at it son. Make me a cuppa before you start though, there's a dear".



^^would genuinely be my response.

[Nousernameforme]

Is your first ex his dad? if so has he been saying something to your son to make him think it's worse than it is? If it can honestly be made spick and span in half an hour it can't be that bad

[Religieuse]

Is your son embarrassed to bring friends around because of the amount of mess? This isn't about men vs women, its about an adult taking care of their child.

I see this coming up on Mn all the time as the ultimate reason to keep your house up to some notionally acceptable level of cleanliness . It might have some weight if the child in question was five - though even my not-particularly-biddable four year old knows perfectly well that he tidies up his morass of toys downstairs before bed, and puts his cup, plate etc in the dishwasher - but a sixteen year old can perfectly well deal with any mess he or she finds unacceptable as a full, almost-adult member of the household, surely?

If parents acted according to what didn't embarrass their teenager, it would be quite an odd old world.

[alltouchedout]

Not so long ago my 7 year old ds2, watching me race around trying to cook dinner, do laundry, tidy the pile of stuff 'on the side', empty the kitchen bin and persuade the fecking cats to get off the fecking counter top (whilst dh attempted to persuade ds 3 that yes, a pooey nappy was a nappy that needed changing and no, it was not acceptable to kick people in the face whilst screaming naaaoooow), sighed and said "I wish we lived in a sparkling house". DS2 thinks that the sofa is an acceptable place to leave food wrappers and that dirty socks live under the bed and that it is unreasonable to have to move toys so the floor can be hovered, so just how, I wonder, does he expect to live in a sparkling fecking house?

[DotForShort]

Hmm, difficult to say. People obviously have vastly different standards when it comes to cleanliness, so short of actually visiting your house it's impossible to say whether anyone else would agree on its state of cleanliness or tidiness. Don't worry, OP, I'm not angling for an invitation. But it can be such a subjective thing.

However, you said that the house is "more or less clean most of the time, but fairly cluttered quite often," but also that it would take half an hour to clean the whole house. If you could clean everything in half an hour, the house must be close to sparkling clean already. But would all the clutter still remain?

I grew up with a mother whose attitude to housework might best be described as casual. She would describe her house in similar terms to yours, but in fact the house was rarely truly clean and never tidy. She was a wonderful mother, don't get me wrong. In my own house, I keep things much cleaner and tidier (though we certainly don't have anything approaching a show home). Clutter makes me feel quite tense and uncomfortable. That is undoubtedly due to the state of the houses I grew up in.

16-year-old boys are not generally known for being particularly conscious of the state of cleanliness or tidiness in their surroundings. So your son's comments may mean a) the home environment really does bother him or b) he was annoyed at the lack of pocket money and he hit on this subject as a random way to lash out. I would most certainly involve him and his siblings in cleaning and tidying on a daily basis. But I'd take his objections seriously if there is a chance his remark was more inspired by "a" than "b."

[hazell42]

I had three visitors at the weekend. Had a big clean up before they arrived (as you do), so no, the house genuinely isn't dirty or stuffed to the gunnels with crap.
Just a few things out of place, and in need of a bit of a hoover.
Ex number 2 is his dad. Did not learn the mistakes of the first marriage before leaping into second one.
One of the reasons why I decided not to do that again

[fattyfattytoadgirl]

Magicpaintbrush

This sounds a miserable way to live. I'd be under constant stress wondering what I'd forgotten to do next. It must be like living with a demanding boss all day, being unable to relax in your own home. Does he do anything to help keep up his very high standards or does it all fall to you?

[RaspberryOverload]

If you can get the place clean and tidy in half an hour, it's not you with the problem.

Your first ex sounds like a prick, using the housework as something to beat you with, if he had to go so far to find something to criticise, and if he's your DS's dad, then perhaps that is why your DS is now making comments. He's picked the attitude up from his dad.

And I'd guess the other ex was similar.

[ABloodyDifficultWoman]

I'm a slattern. My mother was a slattern. DH wasn't when I met him but he kind of is now . I'd hate to be lying on my death bed thinking "Christ I wish I'd done more hoovering". What needs to be done is done and if anyone coming round here actually works undercover for the Department of Sanitation they'd have plenty to report back on but nobody's dead, ill or miserable. One life - more cleaning than necessary? I don't think so!

[Magicpaintbrush]

My DH definitely does his share of housework, very much so, but it's TOO much and sometimes uneccessary, and I'm expected to have the same standards which is draining and makes me feel resentful. I genuinely worry about his health. He will often re-do things I have already done, for example he will remake a bed I have made, re-hang laundry etc. He is lovely, but I think it is a control thing - not over me, but over his own life which has been quite hard and traumatic in the past. Sometimes I wish he would relax more. I love clean and tidy, but not sterile and un-homey. Having a child has forced him to be a little less rigid - little fingerprints all over everything, yellow crayon scribbled over the tv screen.... he did quite well not to have a meltdown really.

[SabineUndine]

Can't judge without photos!

WE NEED PHOTOS.