To not do it when asked

[hazell42]

I have always hated housework. I'm not the hoarder next door, or anything, but I do enjoy a bit of clutter. Sterile minimalism makes me itch.
I have had 2 husbands who could not understand my indifference towards 'home-making'. 'Surely, you want a tidy house,' they would say, as they naively tried to train me to the standards they expected.
I don't have a husband any more.
The more they tried to persuade/force me to be a housewife, the less I wanted to do it. In fact, without their constant nagging, I would have done much more than I did.
Now, six years after my last divorce, I thought that things were good. I clean when I want, I do a bit and leave a fair bit more. House is more or less clean most of the time, but fairly cluttered quite often. I think it has a homely, lived in feel (honestly, not at all horrorshow tv programme standard)
This morning my son (16 and moody) said, 'Surely you want it to be tidy?'
Arggh!
He has decided that I am not up to scratch and other (non-working, domestic godess type) mothers manage to have the house pristine at all times.
Am tempted to take the same tack as I did with husbands, though, obviously, without showing him the door, which was to stubbornly refuse to lift a finger anytime they mentioned the 'state' of the house, and instead point them in the direction of the hoover.
What do you think?

[reader77]

I'm not sure what you mean: I was a child and they were the adults.

[JinnyGreenTeeth]

For a 16 year old boy to notice it must be bad. They're not usually fussed by mess and have no interest in keeping their own rooms cleans and tidy. Maybe it's actually worse than you think. Three other people think your housekeeping is worse than just a bit of clutter and really bad. Maybe it is

Or, alternatively, there's the consideration of who exactly the three people are - can it be coincidence that two of them are nagging men the OP is no longer married to who both seemed incredibly invested in her being a 'housewife', and one is (a) a teenage boy who is the son of one of these delightful characters whose father's sexism may have rubbed off and (b) who apparently doesn't notice that his greasy fast food wrappers are contributing to a mess he seems to think is his mother's responsibility?

Hmm....

My parents had very low standards and I was embarrassed to bring people home. It made me feel they didn't care about me enough to have pride in our home or consider how I felt about my home environment.

And did you have some serious physical disability that prevented you from tidying the house that embarrassed you so much?

[MLGs]

Pps I don't really like housework and struggle to motivate self to do any.

When I was growing up my Dad never did any housework. I think I picked up on this and thought "it's possible to go through life not having to do any housework. I'll have some of that". I still find it hard to shake that tbh. I work quite long hours like he did and I think to myself"why should I do any more" rather than "well this had to be done"

Also we weren't really given chores to do as teenagers. My mum just did it all (and had cleaners from time to time).

From this, I think a house where everyone pitches in is probably the key to bringing up the children to take care of their own shit.

I will try to implement my advice with my own kids!

[MLGs]

Make sure you pick him up on the Bk wrappers in the morning. That is jusy not acceptable!

I would pick him up on any mess he makes for the foreseeable future and try to get him trained up.

[MLGs]

You need to get your son, and other children , to help with housework. It's good for them to get some practice in before they leave home.

I think we need to take your word that it's not too bad as with any mn thread, as that's all we have.

There's a possibility that your son has heard his dad/step dad mentioning this and knows it's how to get at you.

[EttaJ]

For a 16 year old boy to notice it must be bad. They're not usually fussed by mess and have no interest in keeping their own rooms cleans and tidy. Maybe it's actually worse than you think. Three other people think your housekeeping is worse than just a bit of clutter and really bad. Maybe it is.

[BadLad]

You're not his house elf



Next time he gives you anything to put in the wash, say "Sir has presented Dobby with clothes. Dobby is free," before handing him the hoover.

[reader77]

Like a Pp, a messy house makes me tense and uncomfortable and it's difficult to keep a cluttered house properly clean.

I think it's up to you the level of mess/ cleanliness you choose to live with. But be mindful that the people you live with might have different standards. My parents had very low standards and I was embarrassed to bring people home. It made me feel they didn't care about me enough to have pride in our home or consider how I felt about my home environment. Chaos=insecurity for me.
I never really understood their low standards; why would you choose to sit in your own mess? Anymore than you would choose to go for days wearing the same clothes or not showering? But that's me personally.

[hazell42]

Well, spent an hour cleaning up this afternoon, just in case I was causing the little bugger some kind of mental trauma with my sloveliness. He came in half an hour ago with Burger King (wrappers now strewn across my coffee table). He has gone to bed.
Didn't even bloody notice!

[Shizzlestix]

I can't stand clutter but the house is often quite dirty due to multiple animals/outdoor lifestyle. It's very minimalist, especially since I recently removed the coffee table from the lounge!

Each to his own, tell your DS to do chores, I fear I'd be doing nothing: if he is able to express his dislike, he is clearly also capable of wielding a Hoover. :)

[BasinHaircut]

I used to be spotless.

Then I moved in with now DH and I had to relax my standards otherwise we would both have been miserable.

Then I had a child. Now we have no standards!

I jest a little bit, I'd say my house is 'clean enough' but by no means anything to be proud of. I just don't care anymore. No one has died because of it and if visitors want to judge me on the state of the place they are free to leave and not return!

[NerrSnerr]

As a teenager I was embarrassed about the state of my house and could never have friends round. It was genuinely distressing. Could this be the case with your son?

[SabineUndine]

Can't judge without photos!

WE NEED PHOTOS.

[Magicpaintbrush]

My DH definitely does his share of housework, very much so, but it's TOO much and sometimes uneccessary, and I'm expected to have the same standards which is draining and makes me feel resentful. I genuinely worry about his health. He will often re-do things I have already done, for example he will remake a bed I have made, re-hang laundry etc. He is lovely, but I think it is a control thing - not over me, but over his own life which has been quite hard and traumatic in the past. Sometimes I wish he would relax more. I love clean and tidy, but not sterile and un-homey. Having a child has forced him to be a little less rigid - little fingerprints all over everything, yellow crayon scribbled over the tv screen.... he did quite well not to have a meltdown really.

[ABloodyDifficultWoman]

I'm a slattern. My mother was a slattern. DH wasn't when I met him but he kind of is now . I'd hate to be lying on my death bed thinking "Christ I wish I'd done more hoovering". What needs to be done is done and if anyone coming round here actually works undercover for the Department of Sanitation they'd have plenty to report back on but nobody's dead, ill or miserable. One life - more cleaning than necessary? I don't think so!

[RaspberryOverload]

If you can get the place clean and tidy in half an hour, it's not you with the problem.

Your first ex sounds like a prick, using the housework as something to beat you with, if he had to go so far to find something to criticise, and if he's your DS's dad, then perhaps that is why your DS is now making comments. He's picked the attitude up from his dad.

And I'd guess the other ex was similar.

[fattyfattytoadgirl]

Magicpaintbrush

This sounds a miserable way to live. I'd be under constant stress wondering what I'd forgotten to do next. It must be like living with a demanding boss all day, being unable to relax in your own home. Does he do anything to help keep up his very high standards or does it all fall to you?

[hazell42]

I had three visitors at the weekend. Had a big clean up before they arrived (as you do), so no, the house genuinely isn't dirty or stuffed to the gunnels with crap.
Just a few things out of place, and in need of a bit of a hoover.
Ex number 2 is his dad. Did not learn the mistakes of the first marriage before leaping into second one.
One of the reasons why I decided not to do that again

[DotForShort]

Hmm, difficult to say. People obviously have vastly different standards when it comes to cleanliness, so short of actually visiting your house it's impossible to say whether anyone else would agree on its state of cleanliness or tidiness. Don't worry, OP, I'm not angling for an invitation. But it can be such a subjective thing.

However, you said that the house is "more or less clean most of the time, but fairly cluttered quite often," but also that it would take half an hour to clean the whole house. If you could clean everything in half an hour, the house must be close to sparkling clean already. But would all the clutter still remain?

I grew up with a mother whose attitude to housework might best be described as casual. She would describe her house in similar terms to yours, but in fact the house was rarely truly clean and never tidy. She was a wonderful mother, don't get me wrong. In my own house, I keep things much cleaner and tidier (though we certainly don't have anything approaching a show home). Clutter makes me feel quite tense and uncomfortable. That is undoubtedly due to the state of the houses I grew up in.

16-year-old boys are not generally known for being particularly conscious of the state of cleanliness or tidiness in their surroundings. So your son's comments may mean a) the home environment really does bother him or b) he was annoyed at the lack of pocket money and he hit on this subject as a random way to lash out. I would most certainly involve him and his siblings in cleaning and tidying on a daily basis. But I'd take his objections seriously if there is a chance his remark was more inspired by "a" than "b."

[alltouchedout]

Not so long ago my 7 year old ds2, watching me race around trying to cook dinner, do laundry, tidy the pile of stuff 'on the side', empty the kitchen bin and persuade the fecking cats to get off the fecking counter top (whilst dh attempted to persuade ds 3 that yes, a pooey nappy was a nappy that needed changing and no, it was not acceptable to kick people in the face whilst screaming naaaoooow), sighed and said "I wish we lived in a sparkling house". DS2 thinks that the sofa is an acceptable place to leave food wrappers and that dirty socks live under the bed and that it is unreasonable to have to move toys so the floor can be hovered, so just how, I wonder, does he expect to live in a sparkling fecking house?

[Religieuse]

Is your son embarrassed to bring friends around because of the amount of mess? This isn't about men vs women, its about an adult taking care of their child.

I see this coming up on Mn all the time as the ultimate reason to keep your house up to some notionally acceptable level of cleanliness . It might have some weight if the child in question was five - though even my not-particularly-biddable four year old knows perfectly well that he tidies up his morass of toys downstairs before bed, and puts his cup, plate etc in the dishwasher - but a sixteen year old can perfectly well deal with any mess he or she finds unacceptable as a full, almost-adult member of the household, surely?

If parents acted according to what didn't embarrass their teenager, it would be quite an odd old world.

[Nousernameforme]

Is your first ex his dad? if so has he been saying something to your son to make him think it's worse than it is? If it can honestly be made spick and span in half an hour it can't be that bad

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

"Have at it son. Make me a cuppa before you start though, there's a dear".



^^would genuinely be my response.

[hazell42]

No, not his responsibility, which is why I wouldn't ask him to clean up.

I think I am my own worst enemy, because I have always told people I am a terrible housewife, when in fact I am probably an averagely competent housewife (god, I hate that word) who just doesn't like it much and resents being made to feel its her role in life to clean up other people's crap.

And of course having used those words myself, I can hardly deny it when other people say it back to me.

My mum was a rotten housewife, we all loved her regardless, including my dad who worshipped the ground she walked on. So what, if she wasn't Martha Stewart, Nigella Lawson or Anthea bleedin Turner.

I am a single parent of four (2 grown up) kids, I work bloody hard, am always available for my kids, whenever they need me. Honestly, does it really matter that today there were three plates in the sink and a pile of CDs on the floor?

That makes me sound defensive. I just can't see why ordinary levels of untidiness can make some people so bloody uppity.