To think the government should do more about alcohol?

[GiraffeTastic]

Smoking cigarettes has been targeted by successive governments to improve public health, now you can't even see packs on display in shops, massive warnings on packets etc.

However, alcohol, which is another drug linked to cancer, heart disease etc is freely viewable in supermarkets, comes in pretty bottles and the manufacturers advertise it and seem to have made wine a regular product for many people. I know that cigarettes carry passive smoking risks, but what about all the lives destroyed by alcohol problems?

Aibu to think both should be treated in a similar way by the government? I'm not suggesting banning them, but if cigarettes are in plain packets shouldn't wine and spirits be also?

[Marynary]

There's many shades of gray in between that and I suspect many of the "I can take it or leave it" brigade are more dependent on a drink than they realise.

They might dependent but if they aren't getting really drunk then it doesn't effect other people, unlike smoking.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

They might dependent but if they aren't getting really drunk then it doesn't effect other people, unlike smoking

So where's the line between "dependent" and "getting really drunk"? If a parent for example is dependent on alcohol is it going to have absolutely no effects on their family?

[madein1995]

A lot of things could effect a family though - overeating, cheating, lying, exercising too much etc etc, but no one is suggesting banning Ashley Madison adverts or stopping that silly 'Calm down Dan' snickers advert. It's not up to the state to baby people. Sadly, some parents are dependent on things that effect that their families. That doesn't mean a blanket policy on banning alcohol or advertising should come into force - it means that social services and other agencies do their job to recognise at risk families and help. A parent who drinks a glass or two of wine to wind down after a hard day, while the kids are in bed, cleaned, fed and happy, is not doing a great disservice to his/her children. At the end of the day, the government cannot and should not take the responsibility for individuals lives and choices, and cannot run their lives. As long as nothing illegal is happening I say leave people to get on with things. I'm sure some dependent parents do illegal things and there should be intervention for those, but in the case of the scenario above it is not for the government to interfere. The majority are adults are able to think for themselves, and it helps no one for the government to take the responsibility for stopping people drinking.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

no one is suggesting banning Ashley Madison adverts or stopping that silly 'Calm down Dan' snickers advert

I don't know I wouldn't mind a ban on pretty much all adverts Even the non drink related are fairly annoying.

Making alcohol illegal isn't really an option and obviously there are many other things that can damage an individual and/or family like you say but I guess it just amazes me sometimes that alcohol is legal and so available when it basically is just a very powerful drug.

[Marynary]

So where's the line between "dependent" and "getting really drunk"? If a parent for example is dependent on alcohol is it going to have absolutely no effects on their family?

You can be dependent on alcohol and drink more than the recommended units each week without ever getting drunk. In that situation alcohol may effect the long term health of the parent but it won't effect their ability to be a good parent to their children.

[Zaurak]

Banning doesn't work. Hardenened alkies will find a way to drink. Criminals will find a way to feed that need.

The one group who don't end up feeding criminal activity or drinking homebrew are the moderate drinkers. The irony.

Banning is never the answer. Education, better help and earlier help for people with a drink problem might help. Reducing times and points of sale might help. Reducing advertising might help.
Things never really change until there's sufficient social pressure to make them. Look at seat belts - there's been a sea change from no usage to it being an absolute no no to avoid them.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Marynary i find it extremely hard to visualize a scenario like you describe where the parent drinks enough to be dependent and it has no impact (emotionally at least) on the family. I understand you can have such a thing as a "functional " alcoholic but how can this go completely unnoticed by children /a partner/ other family numbers? Genuinely can't get my head round this 'dependency on alcohol in a bubble that affects no one else' type thing you describe.

[LadyAntonella]

The thing about alcohol addiction vs cigarette addiction is that (I don't think) cigarette addiction changes the personality of the addict. My mum was an alcoholic and she died prematurely because of it. The worst thing is that she had caused so much strife by being constantly pissed (and therefore not herself) for the previous ten years that I felt as if I'd lost her many years before she actually died. Would I have preferred it if she had been addicted to ciggies? Hmmmm don't know. I have seen old fellas with emphysema who continue to smoke and it's absolutely horrid. Smoking is a stinky habit and smoking related illnesses are pretty dire, but I do think alcohol can be so much more damaging psychologically and it really does ruin families.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Lady my sympathies. I lost a parent in similar circumstance. What a waste.

[LadyAntonella]

Thanks iwould, yes it was a real shame. She had actually successfully quit the booze for a few weeks and was going to AA meetings when she died. A cruel waste. It really is 'the demon drink'! Coincidentally I gave birth to my daughter precisely one year after my mum died - the exact same date! Was quite healing in a weird way. I'm very sorry to hear about your parent too.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Thanks that's kind of you. It must have been an emotional time to say the least. How sad it's a horrible illness, alcoholism. Your dd is lucky to have you though as you sound lovely

[LadyAntonella]

Thank you, that's a lovely thing to say.

[Stratter5]

You've got to be kidding Marynary, seriously us non drinkers can tell the difference between someone who's had one or two drinks, ad someone who hasn't.

Your behaviour changes. Believe me, all you 'witty', alchol just relaxes me, doesn't affect me drinkers. We can tell. You all turn into fools.

[CantAffordtoLive]

Maybe you all have valid points. But I really am not comfortable about being so highly regulated. Do I no longer have the right to drink? to smoke? The prospect of living a life where I have no 'release'. I believe that people throughout history have resorted to using 'narcotics' for want of a better word, whether that be alcohol or drugs of some description.

Maybe I don't want to live a long and 'healthy' life. Maybe my circumstances are so uncomfortable I want to drink myself to death. Who are you to judge me? To judge my circumstances and my reaction to them?

[madein1995]

IMO, none of us can judge alcoholics or people with alcohol problems because we've not walked in their shoes and experienced what they have. And even if we'd been through the exact same thing, we still can't judge because everyone reacts differently to situations and no one's reaction is 'right' as such.

As for helping, I understand people wanting to lessen the impact. But people with alcohol issues, or even those without them who just like a wine, do not always appreciate help. When my friends tried to help me, it just made me annoyed because I didn't/don't need help, if I feel I need it can reach out for it, I'm not a child who isn't trusted to make her own decisions and as someone over the age of 18 it is my choice and no one else's, especially Mr Cameron's, what or how much I drink. You do all have a lot of valid points, and I do agree to an extent that bars and clubs should tighten up and more support available for if people want it. But I know my friends 'help' made me feel angry, irritated, frustrated, like a child and a whole lot of other emotions and having it be law would increase those tenfold. And I wouldn't care if people thought it was for my own good- the only person entitled to decide what I need, is me

[Marynary]

Marynary i find it extremely hard to visualize a scenario like you describe where the parent drinks enough to be dependent and it has no impact (emotionally at least) on the family. I understand you can have such a thing as a "functional " alcoholic but how can this go completely unnoticed by children /a partner/ other family numbers? Genuinely can't get my head round this 'dependency on alcohol in a bubble that affects no one else' type thing you describe.

It depends on your definition of "dependent". For example, someone who has two glasses of wine every night would be described as dependent and they would certainly be having more than the recommended amounts. They wouldn't ever be drunk though and it won't have an effect on the parenting.

[Marynary]

You've got to be kidding Marynary, seriously us non drinkers can tell the difference between someone who's had one or two drinks, ad someone who hasn't.

You might not be able to tell if the person is a regular drinker. Anyway, the majority of people will drink it in the evening when their children are in bed so it wouldn't effect the children.

[madein1995]

I can assure you, people can't tell when I've had a few drinks because they don't affect me, 3 or 4 before I show any signs and thats the same for the majority of people I know. The majority of people don't get giddy off one vodka and coke.

[Savemefromwine]

Yes agree op the bloody govenment should deliver wine when people run out.

What do we pay our taxes for otherwise??

[Marynary]

I can assure you, people can't tell when I've had a few drinks because they don't affect me, 3 or 4 before I show any signs and thats the same for the majority of people I know. The majority of people don't get giddy off one vodka and coke.

Yes, I remember in an experiment (as a student) many years ago I was still quite a bit under the drink drive limit after two double vodkas (not that I would drive).
Stratter5 If you can tell people have had alcohol, they are either not used to it or they have had more than "one or two" (whatever they tell you).

[Stratter5]

You can, sorry if that isn't what you want to hear, but I've spent enough times being the only non drinker to know that people with a drink or two inside then aren't witty and clever, they're tedious fools who merely think they're funny/smarter.

[Stratter5]

And with that, I think there should absolutely be a zero tolerance on drinking and driving. No alcohol at all if you're getting behind the wheel of a car.

Because it does affect you, no matter what you think.

[Marynary]

You can, sorry if that isn't what you want to hear, but I've spent enough times being the only non drinker to know that people with a drink or two inside then aren't witty and clever, they're tedious fools who merely think they're funny/smarter.

Why do you think I "want to hear" anything in particular? I rarely drink because of medication and never drink when out so I am very used to being the non-drinker. I know that people do not become "tedious fools" or behave any differently (if they are used to drinking) from experience and from the fact that I used to drink and personally know that one or two drinks had no effect on me. As I said was even under the drink drive limit after two double vodka (not that I would have driven).

[treaclesoda]

I know some people who do seem a bit different after even just one drink. But I also know some who don't change at all (although of course they would after several drinks).

I think I'm probably one of the former. I don't drink large amounts, but when I have a drink I associate it psychologically with relaxation, so I probably act more relaxed. My dh on the other hand is a nerdy real ale enthusiast and is so busy scribbling in his notebook about hints of citrus, hoppy overtones and mouthfeel that I very much doubt that anyone would see a change in him after one drink. He's not one for chatting or banter though, even after a drink.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Because it does affect you, no matter what you think

Agree with Stratter here it's very obvious when someone has had a drink.

That said a relative with serious alcohol problems could be extremely intoxicated and not show visible signs of it to people who didn't know him well. In that case which I would say is rare well you are obviously an alcoholic so it's still the same problem if not a scarier one.