To think the government should do more about alcohol?

[GiraffeTastic]

Smoking cigarettes has been targeted by successive governments to improve public health, now you can't even see packs on display in shops, massive warnings on packets etc.

However, alcohol, which is another drug linked to cancer, heart disease etc is freely viewable in supermarkets, comes in pretty bottles and the manufacturers advertise it and seem to have made wine a regular product for many people. I know that cigarettes carry passive smoking risks, but what about all the lives destroyed by alcohol problems?

Aibu to think both should be treated in a similar way by the government? I'm not suggesting banning them, but if cigarettes are in plain packets shouldn't wine and spirits be also?

[treaclesoda]

I'm torn. I'm in my 40s and it was an awful lot easier to get hold of booze when underage back when I was young. So that's a good thing and has presumably worked quite well. When we were 15 we could easily buy booze without ID.

Maybe moving it out if supermarkets etc would help? Even 15 or so years ago the booze was in a separate shop, with a separate entrance, and now it's just in a wee gated off area in the middle of the food, so it's very easy to throw some booze in on your way round. I think little subtle things like that make more difference to people's behaviour than lecturing them.

[PirateFairy45]

*holds bottle of port close to my body

*growls

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Let's start by removing subsidies from the drinks in the Houses in Parliament. It'd be hypocritical of MPs to lecture the common person on the dangers of alcohol otherwise


somebody will pop up to say it's already been removed now won't they

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

YANBU. It's baffling as well when people take the "I hate drugs" stance but get regularly hammered out their nut on bottles of wine or whatever. You realise alcohol is one of the most dangerous unpredictable drugs out there right??

Also it would save the endless tedium of people posting pics of cocktails and the like on facebook. Yawwwn. I actually saw a guy in a pub lately photographing his pint of beer. Then he and his mate sat in silence presumably til the alcohol gave them a bit of personality and confidence to have a conversation.

[Dolphinsanddinosaurs]

I do think that if alcohol was invented now, it would be illegal, it is clearly as harmful as some "legal highs." That said I like a drink, and most people can enjoy alcohol without it causing anyone any issues. I do wonder why the government are so keen for us all to live longer anyway. We are all going to die eventually, and those who like a few drinks are likely to take out less in pensions, and use the NHS for less time.

[MerilwenRose]

I'm torn on the issue. However the one thing I would do, if I were ruler of the world, was to make people have to pay for their NHS treatment of any injuries sustained whilst drinking or on drugs. It really annoys me!

[wasonthelist]

Scotland tried to address some of the issues by introducing minimum unit pricing for alcohol - currently being challenged as against EU law.

[wasonthelist]

was to make people have to pay for their NHS treatment of any injuries sustained whilst drinking or on drugs. It really annoys me!

I feel the same about people who drive like idiots or play football - but it's a daft idea that would never work.

[namechangeparents]

The difference, as someone has said, is that smoking is bad for you full stop.

Drinking in moderation is fine.

People need to drink in moderation. No need to ban alcohol because some people have problems with it.

As for changing the way it's sold in supermarkets, well it's already a pain. You can't buy it from the self-service machines, and you're not told if the cashiers are over 18 so there's a high risk of having to hang around for ages while they find someone to authorise the sale. I was pretty annoyed last week in Sainsburys when the only person on a cashdesk was under 18. Surely if you have only one person on you make sure they can sell age-restricted items.

I do wonder why the government are so keen for us all to live longer anyway.

Quite. More pension costs and you end up in an expensive care home having had a miserable life of depriving yourself.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Agreed Merilwen. In an ideal world pay for the injuries sustained by others at their hands too seeing as a considerable amount of assault /domestic violence happens under the influence. Costs the UK something like £13 billion a year in alcohol related crime.

[namechangeparents]

Scotland tried to address some of the issues by introducing minimum unit pricing for alcohol - currently being challenged as against EU law

The Welsh Government was also looking at it.

[RiverTam]

Surely it's a cultural issue. In many countries heavy drinking, particularly for women which is sexist but does in this instance have an upside, is very frowned upon. So people enjoy the benefits. Look at the size of the average wine glass in the UK, it's massive. In France they are half the size!

There is no actual reason why cheap wine can't be sold like it is in Italy and Greece, and consumed in moderation. The problem lies with the Brits buying and drinking it. Somewhere along the line drunkenness has become acceptable. I don't know how. I have never seen my parents drunk (they had a glass of sherry every day before dinner and wine on high days and holidays) but I was a big boozer back in the day. We are sold the line that getting hammered is what you do on a night out.

So, I wouldn't ban it but I would heavily monitor its portrayal in the media.

[Chattymummyhere]

I don't think advertising or bottles would really change much.

I brew my own anyway.

[hellsbellsmelons]

So once they've started selling wine and spirits in plain packaging what then?

Sweets? Chocolate? Cakes? Crisps? Burgers?

^^ This with bells on!!

[Zaurak]

Here in Sweden you can only buy alcohol over a certain strength (above 3.5% I think) in one government run shop. It has quite limited opening hours. They are also very strict laws on advertising.

A few observations as an outsider.

1. It doesn't stop people getting monumentally pissed. At midsummer or Valborg you can be stepping over drunk people in the street at 8am.
   
2. Swedes don't seem to get as violent as Brits when pissed. I've never seen anyone brawling in a pile of bin bags outside a McDonald's in Sweden, for example.,
   
3. The drinking culture here is different.
   
4. There were very good reasons to introduce the system. Swedes were drinking themselves to death.
   

We barely drink now. There's not a drinking culture where we live. We'd have to get in the car and drive to the specific shop to get wine and we can't be arsed. We have a young baby - that's hard enough without a hangover.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

So once they've started selling wine and spirits in plain packaging what then?

Sweets? Chocolate? Cakes? Crisps? Burgers?

Hardly the same argument. A guy doesn't usually scoff a Mars Bar then go out and punch another guy in the face for looking at him the wrong way. I doubt the England fans in France for example were just high on Haribo.

[VestalVirgin]

I do think that if alcohol was invented now, it would be illegal, it is clearly as harmful as some "legal highs."

Weed is illegal in most places, and it is about as dangerous as alcohol. So, yeah, I do think you are right.

I wonder if all those "nanny state" complainers are in favour of legalizing marihuana.
(I am - but then, I would not complain about it being sold in plain packages with messages warning about the risks.)

I doubt the England fans in France for example were just high on Haribo.

Yeah, a "sugar high" may make toddlers unmanageable, but I never heard about adults misbehaving because of too much sugar.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Hardly the same argument
But it is.
Because it started with smoking.
When I've had a cigarette I don't get violent.
I don't know anyone that does.
It's about health.
And obesity in this country is out of control.
It causes more health issues for adults and kids alike.
As it affects kids, should that be put before the alcohol problem???
We are just becoming such a nanny state.
Let us make our decisions.
Most of us are very capable.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

Most of us are very capable

And a huge number of individuals aren't capable. They are all big health problems but if you want it prioritised I'd say in my opinion alcohol is a more damaging (and yet socially acceptable) threat than obesity. Cigarettes up there too but both taxable legal drugs so don't get your knickers in a twist they're probably not going anywhere soon unfortunately.

[Zaurak]

i think the social damage of alcohol outweighs that of cigarettes. And weed. Weed needs to be licenced and controlled like it is in Colorado. Cigarettes, well, each to their own. Not a fan.
Booze tends to have consequences that extend beyond the drinker. Drink driving for example.

It's difficult because you need to balance personal freedom against societal harm. I actually think what they've done with tobacco is quite a good model.

[Zaurak]

Posted too soon ... A good model in that you still can smoke but there are restrictions on advertising to children, big tax on it etc...

Most people can drink responsibly. A sizeable minority can't, and they do and awful lot of harm. I don't really know what the answer is...

[Buckinbronco]

I dont think the point of banning (either sale or advertising) would be to target/ cure alcoholics. It would surely be to make alcohol less attractive over a very long period so in a couple of generations people won't associate drinking with sun, fun, relaxing and socialising as they do now.

I suspect it probably would work tbh. Lots of people don't do things because they're illegal. I love a booze but am I going to buy it on some dodgy street corner risking arrest of caught in possession of it? Probably not. Illegal drugs might be amazing but i don't know because it's illegal so I have not tried them.

That said, I don't really think it's the same as smoking. At present there is very little evidence of moderate drinking being bad for your health. I think we have a huge cultural issue with booze though (I count myself as part of it)

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

i think the social damage of alcohol outweighs that of cigarettes. And weed

Agreed Zaurak I'd say weed is arguably much less damaging than alcohol. Seems all backwards that one is perfectly legal and one isn't.

[Marynary]

Alcohol is different to smoking in that moderate drinking probably isn't harmful and has no effect on other people. Obviously alcohol abuse is a problem but there is not easy answer to stopping that. Putting it in plainer bottle or preventing advertising will have zero effect. I doubt that increasing the price will have much of an effect either considering that it doesn't seem to work in Scandinavian countries.
Obviously a total ban would reduce consumption but I personally would really object to the removal of some I and many others enjoy. If they are going to do that they should perhaps also do something about obesity as that is also costly to the NHS e.g. ban chocolate, cakes, biscuits or perhaps even sugar.

[IWouldLikeToSeeTheseMangoes]

If hypotethically there was a complete ban it'd reduce a lot of problems obviously but the "moderate drinkers" would be unhappy. But then as I think an earlier poster made a point it's not just as simple as two camps - "moderate drinkers " and "alcoholics." There's many shades of gray in between that and I suspect many of the "I can take it or leave it" brigade are more dependent on a drink than they realise.