To be pissed off at having just seen my tenants spending a load of cash whilst they're behind on rent?

[JennylovesRosie]

I am fed up to the back teeth.

This is the third month now where they're falling behind.

(I know them by their appearance and we have a mutual friend on a social networking site)

I have just seen them paying for a spa and no doubt it'll be up on social media next week (they like to brag and display all their newly acquired gains in Instagrammed glory.)

Next month my kids won't have the birthday parties they wanted because I'm subsidising these idiots living expenses and incurring charges as for their late/part payments.

Has anyone managed to get tenants out despite then not being 2 months late on rent. The Lettings agency have told me I'm stuck with them . Can I fine them?

They got a 12 fixed contract in January and surprise-surprise they started to default from day one of it.

I'm so upset.

God there are some smug, sanctimonious posters on this thread. Just because someone has never been in this position before and therefore hasn't needed to know the relevant area of law she somehow deserves to be abused on here and pissed around by her tenants. Plenty of LLs are decent, well intentioned, fair people who occasionally need advice.

Either give advice freely and without all the unpleasantness or keep all your expertise to yourself.

Op, YANBU they sound bloody annoying. Get angry with them and your LA and get some stern letters written. Actually most people don't wish to be evicted or taken to court and will react to this. The get shot at the first opportunity.

I think we'd have to skip over Fingeronthebutton's (illegal eviction, threatening behaviour and harassment) and holidaysarenice's (slander) contributions though, Martha.

MatildaTheCat, if someone enters into legal relations with the intention of creating an interest in land and clearly doesn't know what the fuck they are doing then they deserve a slating. Similarly, someone in the business of providing shelter really needs to know their arse from their elbow - it is a matter of societal importance that we have landlords are at least halfway capable. Also, this is a public site. If even one person reads this and thinks 'Maybe I won't be a landlord after all because actually it's a pretty serious responsibility and I need to know what I'm doing' then that's beneficial.

Just because someone has never been in this position before and therefore hasn't needed to know the relevant area of law

Ahh come on!! You do not become a LL without expecting to have to deal with late payment of rent. Its probably the most common issues landlord's face. and the one they should be most concerned with as its, you know, their income.

And yes to ignoring all the illegal eviction and harrassment advisors.

OP, I started wondering about where we stood, so I checked the contract drawn up by our letting agent (in fact I have no worries about the tenants as this is their second year in our flat and they are lovely people) and found it contains the following:

1. Rent

8.1. To pay the Rent and any other sums due to the Landlord whether or not they are formally demanded. 8.2. To pay interest at 4% over the Base Rate of the Bank of England on any late payments of Rent from the day on which the Rent was due until it is paid. 8.3. To pay any reasonable charges including VAT for costs incurred by the Landlord or the Agent if a cheque is dishonoured or a standing order recalled. 8.4. To pay £25.50 plus VAT for cost incurred by the Agent in sending any letter regarding non payment of Rent to the Tenant or any guarantor if applicable.

Perhaps you could check to see if your letting agent has a similar clause in the tenancy contract and if not, ask for the contract to be amended immediately to reflect these terms?

Cruikshank, the OP employs a managing agent to do just that thing for her so how is that in any way irresponsible? No doubt she's also perfectly capable of reading up the rules and either applying them herself or employ a solicitor. She came here for support.

There are many, many small landlords who are doing their best to provide safe decent housing. In this case it is the tenant at fault entirely. You seem to just be looking for a chance to have a rant/ blow your own marvellous trumpet.

People don't pay money they owe all the time, HandsOff. It's an issue for big business, small business, sole traders, contractors - everyone. Yes, of course it would be nice if the world was a great big onion and everyone was lovely to each other, but well that's how it is.

Martha I agree re expecting these issues now and again but what a shame we have to expect people to not pay money they owe someone? They should be ashamed.

It is (unfortunately) very naive in any business dealings to expect full and prompt payment every time. It really is. You have to expect it wont happen at times and have a contingency. Anything less and you are leaving yourself vulnerable. This isnt restricted to being a LL. All businesses experience this.

Crosspost with cruik

As for why these threads attract these responses? Because its the same story again and again and again. It gets very wearing. If only people would do a bit of reading, decide its too risky/too much hassle and leave it to those who could afford the risk/handle the hassle and save themselves the stress and loss.

It doesn't stop me thinking that human decency should mean people pay others the money they owe

Thats a bit of a dream really though isnt it? Its not the world we live in, it never will be. Best to prepare as best you can for when the shit hits your fan.

At least here we have a fairly decent legal system with pretty robust enforcement methods though, Handsoff, so it's not all bad. There are lots of places in the world where there is far less protection than in the UK not to mention rackets/mafia etc.

wasnt worried about you, was explaining why foolish to expect no issues with money and not protect against it.

Actually my 'you' didnt mean you, it was a 'all who are in business' you. I thought that was clear.

Hi JennylovesRosie,

I work in housing law and will hopefully be able to set your options straight.

Regardless of how much the arrears are, if you want to serve notice within the fixed term, it has to be under Section 8 (Schedule 2) of the Housing Act 1988. Link here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/schedule/2

If they don't vacate (which is likely if you go under Ground 8, as it only gives two weeks notice) upon the date of the notice expiry, you will then need to make a claim for possession to the County Court in the locality of where your tenants reside. A hearing will be scheduled thereafter.

You would include Ground 8 if the tenants have at least two months of arrears outstanding. You could also include Grounds 10 & 11 (simply that 'some' rent was unpaid & persistent late payment of rent) alongside this, or just rely on grounds 10 & 11 if they don't have at least two months of arrears at this moment in time.

Ground 8 is a 'mandatory' ground which means that if the District Judge accepts your tenants had at least two months of arrears outstanding both on the date the Section 8 notice was served and that they still have at least two months outstanding at the date of the hearing, possession will be awarded to you.

If they have less than two months and/ or you didn't rely on ground 8 to begin with, the DJ will still have to consider grounds 10 and 11 which are 'discretionary'. This means that the DJ must consider whether it is reasonable to award possession, even if they accept the ground is proven.

In my experience, ground 10 and 11 possession claims will only be awarded (if ground 8 is unsuccessful) if the rent is plainly unaffordable for the tenants. If the DJ is ultimately satisfied it's affordable, then they will likely be allowed to remain on a payment plan of paying the rent in full plus X amount towards reducing the arrears.

I would strongly recommend you take the hit and instruct a solicitor to do the possession paperwork for you and to check that you have absolutely met your legal obligations as a landlord thus far- it's extremely easy to get wrong.

Well, actually thats a lie. Most who are in business know the score. It was really directed at the 'you' who think the world should be rainbows and unicorns and everyone hugging.

I wouldnt assume to know what you assume. I only know what i meant. What you do or dont understand is up to you.