To be pissed off at having just seen my tenants spending a load of cash whilst they're behind on rent?

[JennylovesRosie]

I am fed up to the back teeth.

This is the third month now where they're falling behind.

(I know them by their appearance and we have a mutual friend on a social networking site)

I have just seen them paying for a spa and no doubt it'll be up on social media next week (they like to brag and display all their newly acquired gains in Instagrammed glory.)

Next month my kids won't have the birthday parties they wanted because I'm subsidising these idiots living expenses and incurring charges as for their late/part payments.

Has anyone managed to get tenants out despite then not being 2 months late on rent. The Lettings agency have told me I'm stuck with them . Can I fine them?

They got a 12 fixed contract in January and surprise-surprise they started to default from day one of it.

I'm so upset.

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

I've not used a Lettings Agency, but surely it's their responsibility to ensure your tenants pay their rent? And isn't it up to the letting agent to pay the rent if the tenants don't? I always thought if you used a letting agent, they're responsible for damages/unpaid rent. Otherwise what are you paying them for?



I was about to advise that you dont become a LL but i see you are one!

[cruikshank]

I'm not worked up and in contrast to the 'kick them out now' advice (NB OP do not do this as it's illegal) I've told the OP what her legal position is and also given her some pointers as to what she can do in practical terms.

[cruikshank]

I would ask the letting agency if you can put a late payment fee into the contract.

Don't bother. You can charge a set amount (I think 2% above the BOE base rate) of interest on late payment and also charge for 'reasonable' administration costs - and they must be reasonable - ie you can't just whack a £20 charge on because you feel like it.

[RubbishMantra]

*oh, and they had the cheek to give my name as reference to a rental agency. I gave them a very honest reference. Sadly, landlords of bad tenants will give them a good reference, just to get rid. Fortunately he'd moved out already, back to mummy and daddy's, where he'd lived until he was 48...

[AyeAmarok]

God some people are dicks.

Apparently you're just automatically in the wrong for being a landlord and expecting your tenants to actually pay the rent they are contractually obliged to pay

Does it have to be that they have two months rent completely unpaid before you can evict them? Or if after two months they still haven't "caught up" then can you boot them out then?

I'd be really pissed off too if I were you, that's totally taking the piss.

Did they pay a deposit? Can you use that for rent if they don't pay up?

[Pinkheart5915]

Yanbu at all to be annoyed over this
Me and dh are landlords after I got left some property and we've had this with tenants before, we was able to evict but I see that isn't an option for you.

I think some people just choose not to prioritise rent, not something I can understand

[cruikshank]

I think if you've signed a 12 month contract with them, then you're stuck with them until next January. Even if they don't pay another penny.

No, if they don't pay anything for two months the Section 8 notice is much more likely to be successful as that is a clear breach of contract. It's only trying to argue that there's a breach through habitual late payment (ie it gets paid eventually) that is tricky.

[Billben]

I feel for you OP. Two years after selling the house we rented out (not through choice, had our hands tied or our current house sale would have fallen through) and our ex tenant is still paying the rent she owes us in monthly £10 instalments. Would never rent a house out again.

[Jeremysfavouriteaunt]

Cruikshank is giving good advice. I have been a landlord and HMO landlord.

Could I also gently say that just because some posters are about a lot in a particular topic, it doesn't make them expert. I have seen one who has been recommended on here give completely wrong advice, certainly about HMOs.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Your tennants are the reason some landlords ask for six months rent upfront now.

Many people are accidental landlords due to being unable to sell property or planning to move back to it at some point.
Many people are landlords because they have no faith in the pensions industry and want to secure their old age.
Landlords are not normally callous money grabbers who just love to screw people over.

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

Probably the one i recommended. Ignore my post in that case.

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

Try landlordzone.

[Listerscat]

Is it an AST?
2 months is mandatory grounds for possession. But you can also serve notice on discretionary grounds; these include persistent late payments and arrears less than 2 months.
When notice is served on discretionary grounds the court has discretion as to whether or not to grant possession to you and will consider what your tenants have to say. I.e. you might spend the time and money to go to court and lose.
When notice is served on mandatory grounds if your case is filed properly and you served your notice properly then the court must grant possession (in reality the county court often suspends possession upon allowing a payment plan for the tenants to pay you on time in full each month and to additionally pay off the arrears, meaning that you would be granted possession only if your tenants breached the terms if the suspended possession order)
Alternatively you can serve a section 21 notice which is essentially a no grounds eviction, (you just want the place back) and is not in relation to monies owed. This can be the fastest way as you can rely upon the accelerated procedure. Although the tenants get a defence form there is no real defence to file as a section 21 notice isnt accusing them of doing anything wrong. The form can just be used for them to request extra time in the property before giving back possession (only successful in extreme cases when tenants would suffer exceptional hardship by leaving on time) or extra time in paying costs.
The process to get rid of your tenants whichever notice you are advised to serve, is generally service of valid notice, possession claim to court, get posession order, tenants leave on the date given, if not apply to the court for a possession warrant, court bailiffs use warrant to evict tenants.
Use a solicitor or at least meet with one for formal advice first so that your tenancy agreement, paperwork etc, can be perused. Other advice from us lot on here is kind of conjecture given that we've not seen papers.
Again, if its an Assured Shorthold Tenancy you should ensure that your agents registered the deposit (if one was paid) with a TDS or your tenants could make a claim against you for upto 3x the deposit amount for failure to register. If you serve notice and your tenants pop into a law centre or CAB, or something, for some advice the first thing they'll be asked about is the deposit and the state of repair.
Hope it goes well.

[JennylovesRosie]

Thanks Laura
Dipping in and out as not able to give this thread my attention right now sorry if I've missed anyone out.

My fuming has subsided and yes cannot wait to tell them to get lost at the end of the year

[JennylovesRosie]

Thanks Lister.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

Who said its ok to behave like this?
I'm a renter and have been for 17 years. I have never once been late with rent and I never would be.
I'm saying that if tenants paying late causes financial hardship then being a landlord isn't the right business for the op. It's not risk free income. I'm also pointing out that landlords should be passingly acquainted with tenancy law.
The proliferation of accidental landlords has been a blight on renters. Of course mass btl landlords are also a blight but at least they understand they are running a business and usually know the law even if they ignore it

[BoffinMum]

Late payments are the main reason why I shifted over to a fully managed portfolio. I still do the more personal stuff, but when it comes to payment it is very useful for it to be formal and scary with a third party overseeing it.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

Did they pay a deposit? Can you use that for rent if they don't pay up?

No

[Kidnapped]

Listerscat,

"Alternatively you can serve a section 21 notice which is essentially a no grounds eviction, (you just want the place back) and is not in relation to monies owed".

Can the OP do that if the contract is a year long fixed-term contract with no break clause?

If that is the case, what is the point of a fixed-term contract if the landlord can give you 2 months notice at any point within the fixed term?

I thought you couldn't issue a section 21 in those circumstances.

Sorry to hijack, OP. I'm just interested.

[BoffinMum]

As a tenant I accidentally paid rent 3 days late once and was mortified - I think it's appalling when people think it's OK to mess others around on bills. You may feel you don't owe it or can be flexible but at the end of the day if you have an agreement, you have an agreement. And you should respect it. You have no idea about the finances of the landlord and sometimes paying late can cause hardship (I have been in that position with a dodgy tenant I set up a thread about on here, who still owes me £3k).

[mathanxiety]

I don't know how this '(they like to brag and display all their newly acquired gains in Instagrammed glory.)' squares with not stalking them, and if you don't want to use the word stalking then keeping track of them on social media might be a better description.

I'm assuming you credit checked and previous landlord reference checked them and that you have a solicitor who advises you on matters relating to leasing your property? If not, where did you get the lease from?

What I understand is they pay 50% when it's due, followed by 30% and then 20%? Do you have a late payment fee you can assess weekly on unpaid balances that would put them off? Can you require direct deposit/standing order for their rent?

I think you need a solicitor if you don't have one. Not just reference to the Legal section here.

[RubbishMantra]

Martha, I am a LL no more! Lesson learned...

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

A Section 8 Notice on the grounds that cruickshank has advised; eleven, I think? That's a discretionary ground but if the tenants have been late/not paid in full with their rent since the tenancy started you might have a fighting chance of getting shot of them.

Please note that for a mandatory ground there has to be two month's rent owing, not in arrears. You could issue a S8 on the day after the second month's rent falls due. However they will still need to owe at last two month's rent on court-date for it to succeed. If they've been pissing you about since January they must owe you the equivalent of two month's rent by now.

What is the letting agent doing? Have they been in contact with the tenant since the first late/under-payment? It's in their interests to collect the rent as they won't be earning any commission while it's outstanding. The agent should be phoning them on a daily basis by now.

In any case a rent-statement should be sent to them, with the request that their rent is kept up-to-date and that their tenancy could be in joepardy if they do not make contact or pay all of the rent owing immediately.

Please tell me that you saw the tenant's references and credit-check with your own eyes before these deadbeats were offered a 12-month tenancy! Unknown quantities should only be offered a six month one in the first instance. You don't know these people from Adam. At least, you didn't. I think you have the measure of them now.

[Viviennemary]

I think you are quite right to be annoyed. If they are on a six months lease don't let them renew it. But you can't start evict procedures so soon. I've heard some of those tenants are very wise to exactly what they can get away with. Which is so unfair for all the honest decent people looking for houses to rent. What does the agent suggest.

[BoffinMum]

One thing I have learned is if someone pays late once, they continue to do it as it just doesn't matter to them, so I promised myself if it happened in future I would not give any second chances and action the legal paperwork as soon as it was permissible.