DD's friend has stolen from us.

[StuRedman]

Dd is nearly 12.

She has been chumming about with one of our neighbour's DDs, neighbour is the dad and has her EOW. She asked if this girl (13) could stay over last night and I said I didn't mind, she seemed pleasant enough and I'm on chatting terms with her dad.

Dh let them use his old phone to watch Netflix last night. It kept timing out so he disabled the password.

This morning the girls went into town together on the bus. I didn't hear anything from Dd until a few hours later (wasn't best pleased at that as she hasn't answered her phone). She then went back to another friends house and didn't return or pick up her phone until I finally got hold of her at 8pm.

I went to pick her up (pretty fucking furious by now anyway) and when she got in the car she said 'don't be cross but x took Dad's phone into town and lost it'.

Apparently the friend had told Dd she had the phone when they were on the bus and then by the time they'd been round a few shops it had gone missing.

The phone has all DH's banking, Facebook and email apps so he's had to change all his passwords. Dd was in a terrible state but I'm hugely cross with her, she could have told us this at any point today and instead stayed out with these friends until nearly bedtime. I'm still not sure how much of her story is true, according to her she is completely innocent and her friends wouldn't let her phone us and tell us.

I've sent the girls aunt (who she lives with) a polite text asking if she knows what's happened to the phone and got no reply. Dh is going to talk to her dad tomorrow.

I'm so disappointed in Dd but more cross with her friend, if what Dd says is true (that she didn't know her friend had taken it). I feel like an absolute mug and a terrible parent, and I feel like I've given Dd far too much freedom this holidays, and not enough 'vetting' of her friends.

Anyway, AIBU to ban this 'friend' from our house and ground Dd for a month? Because that's what we've done.

[StuRedman]

And yes, as far as I'm concerned taking the phone at all was stealing.

[Maroonie]

She took something from your home without permission- it's stealing.
I'd be contacting her parents and if it wasn't returned I'd be contacting the police.

[bloodyteenagers]

Your dd could have quiet easily sent you a sneaky text when she was still with the mate.
She could have called you anytime after 4.

If it's an iPhone, log on and track it. You can also disable it and scare the shit out of people by making it make a noise

[thecatfromjapan]

You need to talk to her about how to recognise and handle crap friends: people who you may want to be friends with but who put you in uncomfortable situations, dangerous situations, don't recognise your boundaries, abuse you.

I agree with all the posters who think she knew this girl had stolen the phone and didn't know how to handle it.

Really worrying is that she didn't contact you earlier in the day - she needs to know that is an absolute must.

I would go for a series of conversations, attacking one issue at a time, starting with ideas about why and how she needs to keep herself sad, how she needs to take control of acting responsibly, and then moving on to self-respect.

She really must reuse, deep down, that by letting this girl steal her parents' phone, she had fallen way down the group hierarchy and opened herself to all kinds if abuse by them.

Grim situation.

[FruityDelicious]

Eleven is way too young for such freedom, very different to getting to school and back alone. Anything could have happened in all those hours, a lost phone should be the least of your worries.

[thecatfromjapan]

It's really good that she's told you the girl screamed in her face when she asked for the phone. That must be humiliating.

She needs to learn that situations like this may arise again - sadly, they will - and how to react. And how to avoid!

I'd be hoping to get her to recognise that this other girl is to be avoided, and others like her.

Then this horrible situation would end up having life-long benefits.

[Fedup21]

I'm surprised you didn't take your DD home at 4pm?

Has the aunt replied to you? Have you contacted her dad?

I find it most unbelievable that the phone the friend had stolen (ie-that's quite a 'big' thing-to steal...someone's dad's phone) suddenly got lost. I don't buy that.

[Janecc]

Glad you've got to the truth. Just reeling this back. She snuck out and yet you didn't pick her up at 4 pm along with the other girl. What was the reason as she had clearly gone out in the first place without permission? And I don't think 11 / 12 is too young to be out and about as long as you know where she is. I just think she needs clearer boundaries.

[coolaschmoola]

It seems strange to me that everything that happened was someone else's doing and the version of events your dd is giving has her doing nothing at all...

She didn't know the friend had it.

Friend 'screamed in her face'...

Other friends apparently stopped her from phoning you...

Yet at 4pm she wanted to not come home?

I'm sorry but I don't believe any story where everyone else is to blame for everything...

[BarbarianMum]

OK well it's good she's being honest now. It does sound like her 'friend' took advantage of her and she didn't know how to handle it. Grim as it is, I think if you talk this through she may learn a lot of important lessons from this episode.

[Herewegoagainfolks]

Yes, removing your DH's phone from the house without permission was stealing and I would be firmly characterising it as that when I discussed it with the girls guardian.

[corythatwas]

I would first have a serious talk with the other girl's dad- and yes, I would call it stealing.

Then I would have a serious talk with your dd. Frankly, she does not come out of this smelling of roses. She asked to have this friend round, but once it goes pear-shaped she quickly tells you that the friend is known to be trouble. She knew on the bus that her friend had taken something valuable belonging to her dad but did nothing about either taking charge of it or (if too intimidated) asking to come home with you at 4 o'clock so she could tell you in private. She was at a friend's house but could not be bothered to make a phone call; she could have made any excuse at all or just stepped into the loo and done it without asking. If they took her phone she could have politely asked the parent in the house if she could make a phone call.

Basically, I would make it clear that if she wants to be considered mature enough to be out on her own, she is responsible for dealing with things that come up. Not being contactable for hours is unacceptable: once she realises you cannot get hold of her, it is her responsibility to get hold of you.

[InternationalHouseofToast]

Have you phoned Poundland to see if it's been handed in?

Just on the offchance their account is correct and it did just get left on a shelf near the make-up or wherever.

[angielou123]

Do you think it's possible they might have sold it? There are loads of shops in towns that buy second hand phones. It might be worth checking a few of them to see if they had any of those types of phones in that day. Just an idea.

[MushroomMama]

I think the friend still has the phone personally. Screaming in her face would signify to me guilt about the theft. I honestly don't think it was lost at all. Did they take handbags with them? I'm failing to see how the phone became lost in poundland.

I think once everyone calms down its time for the full disclosure and a reassurance of no punishment if she tells the truth. It works for us in our house. Because once you have the truth the situation can be sorted out.

I hope things resolve for you and I agree maybe she's just not ready for unsupervised town trips yet

[grapejuicerocks]

Oh my, you so need to follow this through.
I wouldn't be too hard on DD as long as you can trust what she said happened the way it did. She's probably very upset about it all. I would calmly tell her that you are going to pursue this as far as needs be, maybe even as far as the police, so is she sure that things happened the way she said, as she would be in much more trouble later on if she hasn't told the truth than if she tells the truth now.

[MartinaJ]

Kids fuck up. But the friend shouldn't be going close to your house. Have an open chat with your daughter and tell her that you need to trust her friends to let them into your house. Explain her that the phone had some really important data on it and by stealing/losing it, she created a very unpleasant situation for you and her Dad. She wants freedom so she needs to learn responsibility.

[Kidnapped]

I agree with Coola upthread.

She has tried a few versions of the truth and is now sticking with the one that paints her in the most favourable light.

Even if the DD is now telling the truth about the phone (and that's debatable), and she was upset at what happened earlier in the day, she still had the presence of mind to call her mum and ask her to give the friend a lift home. Although her friends wouldn't let her call her mum to tell her about the phone, they let her call her mum to give the thief a lift home. Eh?

Why did she not go home with her mum at 4pm? Why did she say she'd go home with another friend later (doesn't seem to be too traumatised by her friends at that point) and then why did she decide to stay out a further 2 and a half hours? There's absolutely nobody else to blame for any of above.

[wannadancethenightaway]

I'm going to put it to you this way...several months ago i attended a conference regarding children's welfare. One of the speakers was a girl named Emma who was involved in the Rotherham child abide scandal. She's published a book etc. She spoke about how she became involved and it centred around hanging around shopping centres with people her parents never knew and becoming involved with older meN. Until that point I never even considered that this sort of thing even happened - call me naive. I know this is obviously not what happened to your daughter but you need to know who your DD is hanging about with especially at age 11. You could hear a pin drop as that girl spoke about her experiences. I think 11 is young to be out for that length of time and with people you don't really know. Regarding the phone...its long gone and I hope you and your husband are more careful in the future

[wannadancethenightaway]

Abuse not abide

[ILikeUranus]

If you don't get it back when you speak to the dad (do that today), then go to the police and report it stolen. She may decide to return it after speaking to the police.

[SpidersFromMars]

I'd go round to the neighbours house and get the girl to explain where the phone is.

[BabyGanoush]

Maybe she sold it

Maybe your daughter is involved in (part of) this.

The lying is a bad sign.

[4fingers6toes]

It sounds like the 'friend' has stolen it to be honest. Il trying to put myself in your dd's shoes at age 11. I imagine, she was probably really scared about what you would do and intimidated by the older friend (who doesn't sound very nice) and that's why she didn't tell you straight away. I reckon the other friend has either still got it or will soon ditch it so she can't be found with it. I can't believe you haven't immediately gone round to her dad/aunt and demanded to know what happened. In my opinion it's absolutely stealing. I would make sure the friend knew cost of the item and that you expect her to pay for it. Even if you don't expect this it will show her how serious the issue is.

I can see why dd would be scared to tell/confront the friend. I do remember being that age and it was very hard to balance parents expectations and friends actions etc. She is an 11 year old standing up to a 13 year old. I would have found that hard as a child.

[jacks11]

I agree with PP- taking the phone (whoever did it) stole it. If you take something without the owners permission it is stealing, not borrowing (even if you intend to give it back).

I don't know your DD, obviously, but I would think you should have a fair idea whether this story is true/mostly true or not at all true and should act accordingly- until you have evidence that says otherwise.

I think your daughter needs to take responsibility for her part in this- at the very least she did has lied to you about what happened, stayed out later than agreed and did not answer her phone/contact you. She needs to understand this is not acceptable behaviour and I agree with PP's that this requires a long discussion about the standards of behaviour you expect, why you need to know where she is/why she needs to come home when she says she will and so on. I agree it also needs some form of punishment. I wouldn't do a month's grounding, but I would be grounding her for a week or two with no treats/priviliges and so on. Thereafter allowing some restricted time with friends "on probation" to allow her to earn back trust- so any incidents of not answering phone/staying out late without good reason AND letting you know or misbehaviour of any sort results in further grounding and restrictions on freedom. I would agree at 11 that going out into town all day is probably not something I would be allowing just yet in any case.

I agree with PP that children tend to put their own slant on the story with incidents like this in order to paint themselves in the best possible light and avoid getting into trouble.I think that it does sound likely that she genuinely didn't know that the friend had taken the phone, but thereafter made poor decisions. She needs to understand that and you need to help her see how she can make better decisions in future and stand up for what she knows to be right. As a PP said in that it can be hard at that age to stand up to a friend, especially if they are an older and/or more confident/popular child as they don't want to fall out with friends/worried they will be left out in future. That doesn't mean what your DD did was ok and she needs to understand why that is and how to tackle similar situations in future.

For example, she could have told you at any time once she knew that her "friend" had stolen the phone- I would be interested to hear how her friends "would not let her phone". Was it that they encouraged her not to, made her feel silly for wanting to or did they actually prevent her by taking her phone? I highly doubt it was the latter, but I can imagine friend saying something like "don't be a baby and call your mum, if you do I won't be your friend/will tell everyone and nobody will speak to you". I can also understand why she might have been intimidated if the older girl shouted at her. Nevertheless, even in any of those circumstances, your DD needs to know that she should have acted differently and let you know.