For having a go at this Dad at activity

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

I fear I may have been unreasonable as I'm not having a very good few days, so may have not been rational.

Took DD (1.5) to a play activity today which we regularly go to. I've been feeling a little annoyed lately that some parents aren't supervising their children properly. It's a kind of circuit you go around with your child, but quite often the parent isn't near their child and the children push in front of others etc. I just feel a bit annoyed usually but that's as far as it goes. I understand kids will be kids and don't say anything.

Today there was a dad with his 2 dc's. One was just walking so not really joining in and he was mainly carrying her, and the other was around 3ish. Twice the older child pushed my DD out of the way to go down a slide. That is my daughter was just about to go down and the child clambered over her and went down herself. I let it go - I couldn't see the dad anywhere (although didn't look for him) and my DD wasn't upset.

So... DD went to crawl through a hole. I took a few steps so I could go and meet her at the other side (she is a nervous child and has only in the last few weeks plucked up the courage to go through), and was met with the same child as earlier tearing through and DD was backing away. This time I saw the dad looking on. It really pissed me off that he'd watched and not said a thing. If he'd said "DD be careful" or just said "sorry" I'd have thought no more of it probably. I'm usually a quiet person but I loudly said to him "excuse me, this is the third time your child has shoved DD out of the way". He said actually she hadn't, that my DD had backed away. I said yes she backed away because there was a child barging past her. (It wasn't that DD wasn't quite at the hole and the other child had snuck in front). I told him I wouldn't have minded if it was the first time but it had happened twice before. He said why I didn't tell him then and I said because he wasn't there (he may have been nearish and stood behind me. I had presumed he wasn't there as he hadn't stepped in to encourage the child to wait her turn etc).

The child then goes onto the next part of the circuit and another woman starts helping her, saying to the dad "oh it's no problem to help. I know how hard it is with two children and you have your hands full". DD then goes onto it next, and when the person in charge looks at me I start crying (as I say I've not had a good few days) and so I go to leave. She comes over to see if I'm ok and I politely turn her away as I was trying to compose myself. We walk out of the door then DD starts crying and wants to go back in. I felt guilty as it wasn't her fault I left, so I returned to finish the class.

I feel like I don't want to go back, and that I must've been in the wrong as the other parent in effect backed him up. Plus I feel embarrassed. I'm prepared to be told I'm unreasonable as I did probably snap at him. But at the same time I feel like you should be making an attempt to supervise your child properly at this activity, and I think part of going there is to teach your child to wait their turn and be considerate to others etc. Quite often a child will "jump the queue" and their parent will tell them they must wait their turn etc, and I say not to worry. I do understand that's what children do! I just feel like it's a parents job to try and teach children how they should behave.

Sorry for such a long post for something that probably seems trivial to some.

[lollopops]

Hope you are okay, op.

It sounds like, perhaps, you snapped a bit but with good reason. The other woman was probably just trying to get in his pants 'keep the peace'.

I remember at a play centre, I heard a dad shouting at my child and her friends. He told her that she needed to 'wait your turn'. I was angry until I later found out that dd & the two friends had pushed through before.

Put it down to a bad day as a PP said. PS, I avoid play centres when I feel crappy. Recipe for disaster, imo

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Thanks lollo Shortly after arriving there I realised it was a bad idea to go while I was feeling upset. I feel bad for snapping and if I go again, and if I see him, I think I will apologise for snapping at him.

[TeapotDictator]

OP your attitudes sound very odd to me. Like you're taking it all very seriously when it just isn't. You're not somehow being lazy if you're not 100% on top of your child's behaviour at all times and whilst obviously it's your job as her mother/parent to do the discipline, it "takes a village to raise a child" and there's nothing wrong with children receiving guidance from all sorts of different adults they interact with. Your stance is a bit controlling and I'm not surprised you struggle with scenes like the one you encountered yesterday, with you stood there silently seething at a small child, then having a go at someone inappropriately. Everyone's just cracking on with it and doing their best. That child wasn't out to get you. The dad wasn't doing anything wrong. And your helicoptering around your child with 100% precision - and yet somehow failing to make a stand in her defence, so she can see that you are willing to gently police bad behaviour - is totally counter-productive.

Thank god I don't have to go to these places any more!!

[squashtastic]

I suspect the woman was being a bit sexist and wonder if she would have been so understanding if it had been mum instead of dad looking after two kids? The whole bumbling dad giving mum a break scenario. Bleugh!

That's what I thought too! If my dc had knocked a baby over 3 times, I'd expect her or me to hear about t it.

[squashtastic]

I wouldn't OP. He really owes you an apology, no, you can't be everywhere but when you've missed a trick you need to own up and say sorry.

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Well I think you're odd teapot. And you've jumped to a lot of conclusions bat me and about how I am as a parent. Hope that feels nice

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Bat = about

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

And yes, thank god you don't go to these places. Your horrible judgemental attitude isn't nice.

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Thanks squash. I think I will apologise for snapping as that wasn't on. I could've dealt with it a lot better, and I'm sure I would've if I'd been having a better day.

[TeapotDictator]

Ooh, you're the type to do passive aggressive smiley faces.

Thought so.

[TeapotDictator]

And yes, it is something of a relief not to have to navigate these kind of things with earnest parents freaking out if they perceive a slight infraction against their child, rather than just say something.

And then feel the need to angst about it at great length on Mumsnet. Laugh a minute

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Maybe you should take a step back and have a look at what you're saying and how you're coming across. I admitted I was in the wrong and would apologise to the other parent. Just because I don't have exactly the same views as you (even though I have acknowledged that you have made good points in your previous posts) there's no need to jump down my throat. We're all different and I know I'm not perfect.

The second half of your message this afternoon was really uncalled for and wasn't nice to read:
I'm not a controlling person and I don't see why you have decided I am
I didn't stand silently seething at a small child. I merely said I let it go
I never said the child was "out to get me"! I don't blame the child at all
"The dad wasn't doing anything wrong"... I'm sorry I don't agree. We were both at fault in my mind
Why do you think I helicopter around my child with 100% precision?! Bit of an odd conclusion to make

[NightWanderer]

I think the only person taking it all too seriously is Teapot

[mrsplum2015]

OP As you made some comments clearly directed at my post I will respond to them.

I think you are slightly precious as a mother to only one 20 month old. I probably had your view when my oldest was that age - and to be honest I had plenty of energy and time to devote to focussing on her every move.

As your children grow older and you have more, you accept that you can't be watching and monitoring their behaviour all the time, nor do you feel you need to. As another poster said it's about allowing them some independence and learning their way in the world (which greatly aids them when at age 3 they get left in pre-school to make their own way). When I say I expect others to step in and discipline my child I am only talking about reminding to wait a turn or something, things that actually don't matter that much and they generally learn anyway. It would be the furthest thing from my mind to be embarrassed if another adult reminds my child to say thank you or to wait their turn . Particularly if that parent was you who the behaviour was obviously bothering (and it wasn't bothering me).

You sound very self-conscious about what others think of you. I really don't actually care what other parents think of my DD's behaviour - obviously unless she were biting, hitting or behaving in a dangerous manner. The same as those other low level behaviours by other children (eg pushing past mine) don't bother me at all. Do you really not realise than when your child goes to pre-school or nursery (I'm assuming she's not in any kind of childcare yet) that the children won't be supervised individually and other children will push in front, push her out the way, and even worse sometimes? By trying to protect her and constantly step in you aren't really helping her to develop a stronger mentality to stand up for herself - I do understand you're on the borderline age-wise and probably in six months you'll look back and understand what I'm saying :)

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Surely I'm not constantly stepping in by saying something once, when she gets pushed and shoved every week, and admitting I was in the wrong? I've said I was in the wrong, said I'll aim to say something to the child next time instead. I don't see where I've shown to be a precious mother or where I've said I focus on her every move. Maybe you're right and I am self conscious about what others think a little too much, but I think that's down to my anxiety as that's not how I used to be

[mrsplum2015]

Yes but you have counted each time she was pushed in front of, which indicates that you are really conscious of it. What I was saying is if you are bothered just speak to the child at the time, rather than make it into more of an issue than it needs to be, and needlessly snap at the parent.

You did say in the post following mine that you thought it was your job to watch over your daughter at all times , and indeed said you would be embarrassed if you missed a chance to admonish your child when she pushed in (which does indicate to me that you focus on her every move). When she is 3 or 4 months older if I were you I would make a conscious effort to step back a little, perhaps relax and chat to another mum, you may find it helps your anxiety levels - and consequently your child's anxiety levels.

[honeylulu]

OP I wonder if the thing that is at the root of what has upset you is the other mother seemingly "ganging up" on you with the dad. I'm a bit oversensitive to this too.
Recently I was getting on a crowded train and being pressed and shoved from behind so I kept pressing into people in front of me involuntarily. A woman turned round and snapped "yes all RIGHT! " and just as I had my mouth open to explain that I really couldn't help it, the man next to her said "yes, she (i.e.me) is pushing me as well" and they rolled their eyes and smirked at each other in that "some people!" way. I felt really irrationally upset and like there was no point trying to explain now they had unjustly decided I was an ill mannered cow (I'm really not! )

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Perhaps I didn't explain properly. My child was clambered over, literally climbed on,, not pushed in front of. She gets pushed in front of daily as she's not a particularly confident child in groups! (Although she doesn't have anxiety!) This is why I noticed how many times it happened, as it's not usual and never happened before. I know that if I am "bothered just speak to the child at the time, rather than snap at the parent" as this is what I have pointed out myself.

I understand why my previous post suggested I think I should not take my eyes off my daughter at all, but that is not what I meant. This particular activity is all I'm trying to explain on the whole - where it is definitely necessary to be with your child at all times due to the nature of it.

I honestly appreciate your advice but think I will leave it here. I don't think I'm explaining myself very well, and think by explaining further I appear to be being defensive. As I say in real life I'm a quite person and just go with the flow although it may not seem it

[MiffleTheIntrovert]

Some of the replies here bring to mind the expression "you can be right, or you can be kind".

Op has accepted she was BU and even that she would apologise if she saw the man again. She also said she was stressed and upset about something else, to the point of tears. There is no need to either upset her further to point score or patronise her with "maybe one day you'll understand" type posts.

We all parent differently, none of us are perfect but generally if you can be supportive and kind, rather than put the boot in or try to be superior, it makes the world a happier place. Whether it's in MN or soft bastarding play.

[DoopDoopBiscuit]

Cross post honeylulu. I think you're completely right. I don't think I would've got upset if it just stayed between the two of us. (Maybe it did, I just felt at the time that the other woman got involved)

Your train situation would've annoyed me too. It shouldn't matter what strangers on a train think, but it does! It's only natural to be upset when people are annoyed/judgemental with you for something you know isn't right or true.

[mrsplum2015]

Well again as my posts are clearly being referred to I don't think I'm advocating either being right or being kind over the other. I think I just accept things are as they are and unless someone is in danger don't worry too much - and certainly if your child is at risk of being hurt don't worry at all about telling another child to be gentle, kind, whatever..... I don't think about being kind or being right, I just think about making sure my child is generally ok!

[BillSykesDog]

Yep, Miffle and some people seem to have forgotten that this is a poster who told us she was going through a hard time at the moment and was feeling vulnerable.

[ElephantSuperhero]

You did the right thing, OP.

There's always at least one irritating uber-pushy child at activities and usually the parent of said irritating uber pushy child just stand there whilst their little darling wreaks havoc.

The dad sounds a lazy, shit parent who doesn't dare to upset his child and would sooner other people accommodated his child's unsocial ways than actually step up and parent her!

[deepdarkwood]

OP - I think your responses were entirely reasonable, and I'm sorry you're having a rough time. Older children always do seem pushy and scary when you have a little one (especially a cautious one) and repeating the behaviour whilst the dad either wasn't supervising or didn't have a word sounds annoying.

Fwiw, I think there are three interpretations of the mum's actions:

1. She heard you and thought you were a bit grumpy. (She also thinks dads who can look after two kids are AMAZING - it wouldn't occur to her to think the same of a mum....)
   
2. She heard you and thought you were right. She was trying to back you up by making the point that the dad needed help/wasn't managing his child
   
3. She didn't hear you at all and was just chatting
   

But, I think that in that sort of place, especially as your dc get older and you are less 'attached' to them, then you'll find that others need to have a word with your dd - and ditto you with others dc's. So I think it is worth practicing the skill of speaking up when you see things. From the 3 yo point of view, s/he saw someone slower who was holding her up. So s/he solved the problem! S/he is older, possibly more used to physical rough and tumble, didn't see an issue. She is also older, so her parents need to be there less - indeed, it's important that she starts to navigate things on her own (not long to school etc...) So both the child, and the parent were not necessarily in the wrong - the only person who could see that was you. So you need to speak up. A simple -"Just a sec, there's a queue here" Or "Wait 2 seconds, then it's your turn". Doesn't have to be confrontational (although if a child climbed over mine, I'd be at 'Be careful, don't climb over people in case you hurt them" level!)

Don't let it put you off the activity if your dd enjoys it - everyone will have understood that you were having a bad day, and I bet loads of them are wishing that you had stayed! I saw a few mums leave places in tears after that sort of thing - where it just triggers you - and overtime my heart went out to them.