Does your cleaner work on bank holidays?

[HormonalHeap]

Just wondered what was normal. Mine has only just started (not through agency if that makes any difference), and has asked for this Friday, Saturday and Monday off as its a bank hol weekend. That will cost me £150.

Want to be fair but she's only been with us for two weeks. What's fair?

[HormonalHeap]

Noted DanglyEar, thank you.

[Boleh]

When we were overseas and had a directly employed cleaner for 13 hours a week we paid her for bank holidays when they fell on her working days and not when they didn't, this worked out pretty close to the same as giving her the pro-rata equivalent of 13 hours a weeks worth of bank holidays paid leave (ie 13/40 X 8 X no of BH days gives the no if hours she would be due). We also have her 2 weeks of paid annual leave (also paid at her normal salary so effectively only for the 13 hours each week) - and she could take more unpaid if she wanted.
Totally different situation to having an agency cleaner where you pay the hours they work for you and the agency pays their BH/annual leave/sick leave pay. Also a think somewhat different to having a self employed cleaner who only does a few hours each week for you where I think you'd expect only to pay what they actually worked and either for them to not come on the BH and not be paid or rearrange.

[Boleh]

Oh and in the situation above we did continue to pay her if we were away, although it was never that long but I generally left a list of spring cleaning type jobs for her to work her way through if she ran out of stuff to do.

[HopelesslydevotedtoGu]

She is self employed so you only pay her when she works.

A Nanny is employed so is entitled to paid BH. It is a different situation.

Why on earth are you paying her when she doesn't work?

[HormonalHeap]

Because I'm a mug and desperate to keep her as we had a couple of nutters before finding her. I do not want to give her he keys to our home whilst we're away for a month in the summer though as I have only just met her. She had two references but still wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

[Nanny0gg]

But she's not self-employed if she's working cash-in-hand. She won't be declaring it.

So you absolutely don't pay if she's not working.

[shinynewusername]

I would be wary of any cash in hand trader they may not be operating legally and this could come back on you in the future

Agree. Also, If she is doing 20 hours, there is a good chance that she would be considered an employee in the event of any HR or tax challenge. You'd be better off with a proper employee or a contract cleaner.

[luckiestgirlintheworld]

Hahaha you were going to pay her when you're on holiday and she won't even be working?!

[ifyoulikepinacolada]

Errrr hang on, i get paid cash in hand, am registered with hmrc, have indemnity insurance and pay my tax and NI. I think it's unfair to leap to the conclusion that because she's taking the p here - which she definitely is - that she's working illegally.

OP at 20 hours a week you should have a contract though. It'll cover your back more than anything!

[sherrytrifleforone]

As far as I remember Good Friday although a bank holiday is not a public holiday so she is not entitled to be paid for that day if she chooses not to work.

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

That's different ifyoulike because you can offer other options of payment terms such as BACS or cheque because you are legal.

That does not make you "cash in hand' - we also take a few cash paying customers because they are elderly and don't understand online banking but we offer other payment methods too, therefore are not "cash in hand" either but professional services.

The OP clearly referred to her cleaner as "cash in hand" meaning thats the way she needs her payment. That is clearly for a reason in this case, if there"s any doubt you can ask to see someone's letter from HMRC with their UTR and their insurance documentation to prove they are legit and honest traders.

[londonrach]

Im registered with hmrc and do my tax return every year, I get paid by cash with occasional cheque by my patients. I can ensure you every penny is accounted for. Im also paye so making my tax return complicated. Saying that i wouldnt pay her as i dont get paid if i dont work. Thats a disadvantage of being self employed.

[Balletgirlmum]

Even if she were employed by you if she has only just started then she may not be entitled to be paid on the bank holidays.

An employed person accrues holiday entitlement at a rate of 2.3 days per month or 0.538 days per week

[Balletgirlmum]

We've got a couple of people at work at the moment who are taking unpaid leave at Easter as they hsvnt accrued enough holiday

[ClopySow]

The entitlement mentioned above would be pro rata as well due to part time hours, so she's only accrued the equivelant of half a day.

[Pico2]

I suspect that she is an employee, not self employed. You therefore need to be sorting out a payroll, paying employer's NIC and deducting employee's NIC and PAYE. Otherwise you may become liable for all of that plus penalties from HMRC. You will need to allow the statutory minimum holiday, but you can decide when this is taken, so might choose for your employee to work bank holidays but not in August. That should all be in the written contract/statement you have with her.

[HormonalHeap]

Thank you all, I can see that this is more complicated than I thought. I have always given my cleaners cash as that is what they asked for but I guess we have needed less hours in the past.

[HormonalHeap]

Anyway I'm hoping she's not like our last 'cash in hand', who literally made off with ds's cash in her hand!

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

If you employ someone directly they are entitled to 5.6 weeks annual leave (pro-rata) which can include bank holidays.

You must also pay SSP (sick pay) after 3 consecutive days absence.

If an employee gets pregnant then there is a lot of maternity pay to pay for for a long time - this has not happened to us yet but I know it could.

You are also legally obliged to calculate NI and tax they owe and withhold this and send it off to HMRC (I have an accountant run our payroll as I cannot be bothered with all that, my business owner friends who do it for themselves say it's fiddly).

I honestly think cleaners working directly for a client should be self-employed and responsible for their own tax,/insurance/ business costs though, that is why cleaning is so expensive, they need to factor in all their costs then be left with an adequate wage at a rate which they don't mind cleaning on site and also doing all their personal admin and other business chores for.

I sometimes think when people regard cleaner rates (say £15 an hour) as a lot of money for a self employed cleaner they need to think about how much of a wage he/she will be able to draw when all costs of business have been taken into consideration. Margins are very tight in this industry all things considered, when operating legally and acting in customer's best interests at all times cleaning business owners actually struggle to be left with a good living, there is huge demand for services but it's fairly difficult to get the price you need to actually make a decent living. You have to have a passion for what your doing, it's not a 'get rich' industry. I love it though.

I think as long as you check that a solo cleaner is trading legitimately (ie HMRC document to prove registered as self employed and insurance documents) you should be fairly safe from dodgy types since people in business have a reputation to protect and will absolutely rely upon word of mouth to find clients in the beginning. I think it's ok to pay cash as long as they offer other options such as bank transfer or cheque so you know they don;t mind showing all their income to whoever. If there's only a cash option that smells like potential trouble.

[blindsider]

dangly earornaments

Just download Bright pay it costs £89 per year and couldn't be more simple. It will also handle auto enrolment for you.

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

Oh thank you so much blindsider I really appreciate that, I'm off to have a look into it!

[IceMaiden73]

She is self employed ! She should only be being paid for the hours she actually works

Wow 20 hours a week is a lot, we have a cleaner for 8 hours and I though that was hefty

If HMRC investigated and you employ her 20 hours a week then I would suspect that she should be on a payroll and treated as an employee - you would need to pay employers NI and she would be entitled to annual leave, SSP, etc

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

Yes I do.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

There seems to be a common misconception in MN about being paid/paying with cash with lots of pearl clutching etc. We own a business and most of our transactions are cash. It doesn't mean we're on the fiddle. Everything goes through the books. There's nothing wrong with cash as long as you're not hiding the transaction.

[Balletgirlmum]

Yes, auto enrolment & pension contributions is another can of worms you will open if she is seen to be employed

It might seem a faff but I'd be inclined to put the job 'out to tender' eg invite another agency/cleaner to quote for the work on a day rate/hourly basis & do the same with her.

Then send her a letter accepting her quotation & put in your payment terms. Not fsilsafe but shows a paper trail.