Does your cleaner work on bank holidays?

[HormonalHeap]

Just wondered what was normal. Mine has only just started (not through agency if that makes any difference), and has asked for this Friday, Saturday and Monday off as its a bank hol weekend. That will cost me £150.

Want to be fair but she's only been with us for two weeks. What's fair?

[HormonalHeap]

Thanks Blonds. Trusted my last as had her 2 yrs and really got to know her. The one before that we caught stealing despite being with us 3 years which was upsetting, hence my trust issues! This one came through an advert in newsagent, checked 2 references. Yes it's a bit strange changing from nannying to cleaning.. I reckon she can't find a nannying job in the area.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

with that size house you def need 20 hrs :)

And no you don't pay her if she doesn't work


Most people I know who have a cleaner leave them in their home alone while at work etc

Ie they trust them

You Obv don't trust yours - yes you Havnt had her long

Where did you get her from? Did you check references?

If she was a nanny before why go into cleaning?

Seems weird. Maybe she was more of an au pair hence her lack of English /understanding you?

[HormonalHeap]

That's exactly what i think I'll do, thanks very much!

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

Ah well in that case, as we've said before, she wants to have her cake and eat it.

I wouldn't pay her for any time she takes off but would possibly pay for two out of the four missed visits when you are away, just so that she can afford to reserve your spot for you.

No need to pay her whenever SHE decides she's unable to attend though!

[HormonalHeap]

DangleyEar yes I was referring to the days over Easter she didn't want to work.

Just to clarify, my cleaner gets £10 ph which is the going rate around here, so yes she does 5 hours 4 days a week which may seem a lot Blindshavemorefun but 6/7 bed house so she does half the house and ironing every time she comes,

As for the poster who said either I trust her or I don't.. I trust her to clean whist I'm in and out, don't leave valuables lying around and most certainly wouldn't hand her a key whilst away for nearly a month!

[cleaty]

She works in an office. This is not a domestic cleaner.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

I did think that as op said uses her for 20hrs a week but after reading again the month of Aug she is away and said didn't want to pay 800 so 200 a week hence £10ph at 20hrs

Must do 5hrs a day 4 days a week -so £50 a day hence the 3 days off = 150

Either way - don't pay her if she doesn't work or you don't need her - that's how se works

She is working cih if you pay her 200 a week but No tax or ni

You are not her employer so you don't pay holiday sick or smp pay

What on earth does she do for 20hrs?

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

I've just spotted that Blondes thinks the same thing ie that she charges just £150 for 20 hours work.

That can't be right surely, I'm sure the OP was only referring to the cost just for the days she isn't working not the whole amount she is paying for the full 20 hours per week?

20 hours per week would set you back around £300 if you came to us, we may lower the price slightly as an 'economy of scale' since we would save on cleaners' travel time by having them in one place so much but we couldn't reduce the price by too much or we'd be making a loss!

I'm sure she didn't mean that she gets 20 hours cleaning a week for £150 it's not possible!

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

Woah! - hang on a minute cleaty - OP only said the cleaner was taking certain days off, for which she was charging her the full £150 for THOSE days but the cleaner may still be working as usual on another of her usual days.

I wasn't thinking she was paying her so little, I had assumed the cleaner was doing around four hours per shift and charging £50 per four hour shift (or something similar which would be a normal-ish rate to charge for a cheap-ish cleaner). The OP is only talking about the days the cleaner wants off and also wants payment for, not the rest of the week's work when the cleaner will attend as normal.

That's how I saw it anyway ...

Oh blimey - I'm not sure now, if the OP is only paying at that rate then of course the cleaner is an employee and deserves all holiday pay and statutory rights by law. I really can't see a cleaner charging any less that £10 per hour though at the very cheapest, that seems to be lowest end pricing wise, even for illegal cleaners. The reason cleaning is expensive is that there are a lot of costs involved in being self-employed and at the same time being responsible for saving for providing one's own statutory rights such as holiday pay, travel costs and sick pay etc.

[cleaty]

Apologies, yes you are paying the NMW. But nobody who is self employed and paying tax would only charge that amount. It would mean after paying insurance and spending time doing a tax return, that overall she would earn less than NMW. I suspect HMRC would judge that you were her employer.

[cleaty]

You are paying her less than NMW, unless she is very young. She won't be properly self employed and declaring it at that rate of pay.

[cleaty]

At the office I work, we pay our cleaner in cash. But she is an employee and everything goes through the books. Paying in cash is irrelevant.

[VelvetCushion]

Ive always paid cleaner cash. Never questioned it either. So many domestic cleaners are paid in cash. I cant see the problem. Why do people always act shocked when cash is involved
I get paid in cash if I do weekends for my company. Rather than through the usual mon-fri payroll i get in the week. Boss just pays me from his wallet.
Same as i pay cleaner from my purse. Its not unusual you know.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

She's pulling a fast one

A cleaner is se. She invoices you and you pay her. Whether cash cheq or bacs

She doesn't get paid holidays as se unless this is something you have botb agreed to and have in a contract

She earns £150 from you? 20hrs so nmw?

If still with you in the summer then give her your keys. You either trust her or you don't

If you don't then don't use services

[isitginoclock]

How do you know she's any good if you've only had her for two weeks? If she's truly excellent do whatever you have to to keep her. Easter/Xmas/birthday presents/ flexibility with hours.

[Ceeceecee]

She sounds quite demanding!

[Florene]

She is selling her services. You are buying her services. She is not your employee so she does not accrue holiday pay.

Agree with asking her to invoice you. Makes it clearer what the relationship between you is.

[HormonalHeap]

I have only known this cleaner a couple of weeks so still really a stranger, there's no way I would consider giving her a key to our home whilst we were away. Having said that, she relies on the cash she gets from this job so I don't think it would be fair not to pay her anything for that length of time. I know I don't have to but I'd probably give her half unless I wanted to lose her.

I had a chat with her this morning explaining the different employment options. I'm not entirely sure she understood everything I said. She didn't look very impressed and told me she has a friend cleaning close by who has been with her family 5 years, gets cash and still gets "time off". I told her this was very unusual. I'm not sure whether she's trying it on or she genuinely doesn't understand.

DanglyEar with regards to her hours, I simply told her how many hours the house needs and she confirmed she was available.

[giraffesCantReachTheirToes]

Mine wants to work on Mon...at 9am and I have to let her know if I am ok with that.

I am reluctant to get up at that time!

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

In most cases a cleaning service provider will suggest how many hours they think the the work specified by the potential client will take them to complete and if that amount of time is not affordable to the client, they can rethink the scope of the work together to better suit the budget available for cleaning.

In this way both the service provider and the client set out the hours required together to make the plan. The hours agreed upon are then ordered by the client and this work order is added to the cleaner's schedule to fit in with her other clients work orders.

It's not usually a case of setting hours it's a case of ordering work from a service provider.

In our case we don't charge by the hour but charge a rate per home clened so we work to our own variable schedule for each client and complete each job to satisfaction, but even with 'hourly rate' service providers they fulfilling a business transaction if all is done correctly and above board hours are agreed together and not dictated by either party. Obviously if a client started dictating hours to the cleaner they would be acting as an employer but this is not the way the industry works this would be in nobody's best interests. Cleaners are always self employed unless they work for a cleaning company of course. I don't know anyone who would want to bother running a payroll for a cleaner themselves. This is one of the reasons clients use companies like us or agencies, so that someone else takes care of these issues but a solo cleaner really should also be set up as a business and then it's all a none-issue.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

Who sets the cleaners hours OP?

[Balletgirlmum]

Most other working people? Lots & lots of people work on bank holidays.

Self employed people quote for work & bill their clients for a job done. Employed people get paid holidays. There are pros & cons to both ways.

My office uses a cleaning firm - it's run by two ladies who quoted for X hours per week. We are closed today so they came yesterday instead & in fact they are going on holiday next week so they won't be charging us.

If however they employed an extra cleaner to build their business then they would have to pay them holiday pay & make sure their charges covered their overheads.

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

harsh - yes they are but the reason they charge higher rates than all of the above is because they are SELF-EMPLOYED ie running a business with all associated costs attached!

I am a cleaner/cleaning business owner with a mid-sized company - we treat our staff like gold dust as cleaners are very difficult to find as either employees (in our case) or as self-employed service providers in the case of the OP and while in almost every case under the sun I would be in support of anyone working within the cleaning industry this person is not playing fair with the OP.

She wanted cash in her hand - putting the OP at all sorts of risk with HMRC and therefore is unlikely to be insured to protect OP. She is charging the OP for times she will not be cleaning which is NOT how cleaning business owners usually operate (bearing in mind I have been trading within this industry for 19 years now and am now on the panel of a cleaning business owner trade association, therefore in a position to advise cleaning start-ups on how to trade professionally and with the customers' best interests at heart and charge accordingly!)

In a nutshell - cleaners command these high rates due to demand for their services AND because they must to cover all business related costs. It seems this cleaner is NOT running a legitimate business and is working 'under the table' which would make ALL of her income go straight into her back pocket instead of spending some of such on protecting the OP and other customers as a legally operated business would do and on top of that, she wants the OP to pay for her time off!

It beggars belief!

[harshbuttrue1980]

I haven't rtft, but I assume that cleaners have bank holidays off to spend time with their families like most other working people?? Workers in banks, post offices, most shops, offices etc all get the time off, so why not cleaners? They are human beings like everyone else and need time to recharge like the rest of us.

[DanglyEarOrnaments]

I am a bit at the cleaner for both asking for cash payments for her own benefit AND charging you for her time off - it's just weird and cheeky and her getting all her own way in every direction whilst you are at risk of future problems!

I would be firm she either has it her way and sneaks around unregistered and you all hush (risky) and she stops charging for no visit OR she registers to pay tax and you decide between you what is fair terms for non-visits - I would suggest when SHE cancels you don't pay but when YOU cancel you usually don't pay but i do suggest she gets some payment during your long holiday, the first visit could be to clean as normal after you've gone then another for deeper cleaning jobs while you are away then she only gets two visits cancelled, if that makes sense? I would offer that to her in order to retain her services while you are away but not when she cancels you - that's just not on!