So there's apparently not an NHS anymore?

[MattDillonsPants]

www.independent.co.uk/voices/terrifyingly-according-to-the-world-health-organisation-definition-the-uk-no-longer-has-a-nhs-a6923126.html

Is it so? ;(

[shazzarooney99]

Peaceandloveeveryone, why would you be a frequent name changer? i dont get this unless you have something to hide. no offense like!

[BeaufortBelle]

I haven't seen any banners saying "improve CAMHS" I haven't received a proper explanation, let alone a proper apology from CAMHS. The CCG were aware of the problems and more on the ball; also very interested to hear that services were not staffed during the advertised core hours. Sometimes being able to pay for an alternative allows one to be more frank with the organ grinders than otherwise.

I was left with the impression that the CAMHS staff didn't care and wouldn't put themselves out. Had they said up front these are our thresholds, these are our services, this is when they are provided it would have been more honest and my DD would have received help more quickly.

The lack of transparency and pretence is shocking. The people who work for CAMHS were very willing to perpetuate it. Yes, they did tell me they were under resourced but I saw no evidence they were using the resources they had efficiently or to provide the best and most accessible services they could for the patients. Services seemed very much to be structured for the convenience of the staff.

[Peaceandloveeveryone]

No offence taken, lots of people namechange frequently since the hacking, I thought everyone knew that. I am laughing at having something to hide, been here 13 years and a very boring poster. I namechanger again recently as I named my dd2 school on here.

[Peaceandloveeveryone]

I was on a thread with girls where she was talking about which private schools her daughter's attended , hence I explained the name change.

[MinniedeMinx]

shazzarooney99 Rolls eyes, That was a pointless comment. From your point of view its really irrelevant, so why the suspicion? Its troll causing problems on this site, not people who would like to remain anon. No offence, like.

[MinniedeMinx]

The Tories are underhanded and anti democratic. This news is heart breaking. The NHS is one of the things about the UK we could all be proud of.

[yorkshapudding]

I work in CAMHS. I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry in response to being told that the service is run "for the convenience of the staff". I am at my desk for 7am every shift (even though I don't start getting paid for another two hours after that), I can't remember the last time I left on time or the last weekend that I didn't bring work home with me. Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time a whole week went by without me waking up in the early hours of the morning feeling physically sick with worry about at least one of the kids on my caseload.

Our staff numbers have been utterly decimated while the number of referrals we are recieving has skyrocketed and the cases are becoming increasingly complex. The number of CAMHS inpatient beds has been slashed so kids who really should be in hospital are out in the community and we're supposed to keep them safe, but there simply aren't enough of us. Management has acknowledged that we are all working way over capacity to the extent that it is unsafe but the funding for more staff simply isn't there. I am currently the only person in my service trained in a specific psychological therapy (yes, contrary to some opinions on this thread specialist CAMHS Nurses can be, and often are, qualified in a number of psychological therapies!) that is hugely in demand. There used to be an entire team of us, now just me. I am constantly shouted at and berated over the phone about the length of the waiting list, over which I have absolutely no control whatsoever. What am I supposed to do, fucking clone myself?

I have had a parent make a formal complaint against me because none of the five different appointments slots I offered to her child fit in with her working hours, another complained because I had the audacity to wear jeans to an appointment- I explained that it was my day off and I had come in at very short notice to help out because a colleague had to go home ill but apparently that's no excuse.

Fortunately, most families understand the pressures the service is under but some have completely unrealistic expectations and make all kinds of threats when their child is not offered the exact intervention they want (even if that intervention is not clinically indicated or CAMHS are not commisioned to provide it), or if we are not able to accomodate requests immediately (I frequently get voicemails from certain parents instructing me to call them back "within the hour" or at a specific time) because I am already in an appointment or dealing with a crisis situation.

I used to love this job but I am so sick and tired of making myself ill, feeling like i'm neglecting my own family and never, ever being able to relax only to hear parents blaming "incompetent", "uncaring" frontline staff for complex systemic and governmental failings that we have absolutely no control over.

Until you know how it feels to cut a 13 year old child down from hanging and resuscitate them, or to have to listen to primary school aged children graphically describe their experience of being sexually abused then please don't make sweeping generalisations based on your own experience and (very) limited understanding of CAMHS because I can assure you that if one were to choose a job for it's relative "convenience" this would not be it! And we certainly don't do it for the money- years of pay restraint means I'm worse off now as a specialist nurse with years of experience and post grad training than I was as a staff nurse on the wards.

This government, with their determination to starve the NHS of resources and their flagrant disregard for the damage that their cuts are doing to vulnerable families, have robbed me of any of the enjoyment or sense of pride that I used to get from my work. So please don't assume that we don't care because believe me, at this point caring is the only thing keeping us going.

I'm sorry for the massive rant everyone, but I'm just feeling utterly defeated by it all right now and reading shit like this really doesn't help. I think I need to hide all the NHS relate threads until I've gotten a grip (or at least some sleep) and can take the inevitable nurse/CAMHS bashing on the chin as per.

[Peaceandloveeveryone]

I am going to have to hide this thread as it is winding me up so much, before I do though, not one person has said that nurses can't or shouldn't do therapies, I am so sick of people twisting things on here. I don't think that anyone would disagree that it is underfunded either.

[Peaceandloveeveryone]

Parents do get unreasonable sometimes when their much loved child is attempting suicide, you have to have a very unwell child to get a referral in my area.

[LifeofI]

And all of you who voted tories and are going to vote to stay in the EU are to blame.
They are also oicking on the disabled thanks to you idiots who voted for them to stay.
Hang your head in shame you ruined the uk.

[yorkshapudding]

"Parents do get unreasonable sometimes when their much loved child is attempting suicide"

None of the examples I gave were in relation to parents of suicidal children. Very often, it is when I am busy dealing with one of the many suicidal children on my caseload that the parent of a less unwell child will complain about not being able to get hold of me immediately. I wish I could devote equal time to all the kids on my caseload but sometimes cases where there is immediate risk of significant harm have to be prioritised. Of course every parent feels that their child should be a priority and I understand that (I would feel exactly the same) but I can't be in two places at once.

[cleaty]

Mental health problems in children have increased massively, whilst the care available has been reduced. No wonder children do not get the care they need.

[yorkshapudding]

Mental health problems in children have increased massively, whilst the care available has been reduced. No wonder children do not get the care they need

Absolutely, cleaty. The cuts to social care have also had a huge impact. We are seeing more and more kids who no amount of therapy or medical intervention will help because their environment/social circumstances are what's causing their difficulties. But social care are as stretched as we are, so their thresholds have gone up massively and kids who at one time would have been placed in local authority care are being managed under CAF's or child in need plans. There's nothing mental health services can realistically do to alleviate a child's anxiety or low mood when they're being re- traumatised every single day due to living in an abusive home environment. But when we try to explain that to their schools, GP's etc. they see it as CAMHS "passing the buck" so we end up with kids sitting on our caseloads for long periods of time who we know we aren't going to be able to achieve any meaningful/sustainable change with but we have to take responsibility for them because no other agency is willing/able to and they are often the kids who are very high risk.

It's a mess.

[tangerinesarenottheonlyfruit]

yorkshapudding that's desperately sad.

What kind of future are we making?

[ClarenceTheLion]

And all of you who voted tories and are going to vote to stay in the EU are to blame.

I'll never vote Tory, but I am going to vote to stay in the EU, simply because the only real change that will come from leaving is that we'll lose a lot of power, and a lot of money. Look at Norway. To trade in the European single market they have to abide by all the rules as members, but they have no say in what rules are made. The EU is our largest trading partner by far, we can't not deal with them. We'll need them but they won't really need us, meaning we will end up paying in more than we do now, and also losing the right to have any input. Plus of course, Scotland would leave, further weakening both sides. If we leave the EU we'll be fucked.

[BeaufortBelle]

Yorkshapudding What you are doing sounds a far cry from my local area where CAMHS offices are advertising service from 9-5 but where staff aren't rolling in until closer to 9.30. That was a fact. Where I live the service is recognised as unfit for purpose to the extent that bookings and referrals are to be centralised and indeed extra millions are being pumped in from this spring. That much I have found out.

I would respect staff for striking specifically for the sake of the patients. That is not what has happened.

The bottom line is my daughter was escalating and becoming very ill. There was no acceptable NHS help available for her and not one person I spoke to in our local trust inspired any confidence in me that they were competent enough to be trusted with her care. It was truly shambolic beyond a question of resources. I would happily pay more tax but not for the dire standards I saw around here.

I still don't know precisely what qualifies a primary mental healthcare worker to make a clinical judgement in relation to my daughter's mental health. Nobody has been able to tell me that either. All I know is that the person wasn't a doctor and wasn't a clinical psychologist. They did some fact finding, made an interpretation and selectively presented some facts to a multidisciplinary team. That same person was chewing gum and lost my phone number. How can I possibly have faith in their professionalism to ensure the best possible outcome for my child?

I have done as much as I can to kick up a stink about this with the full encouragement of my GP but if this is representative of the standards that are going on in and around the NHS then the situation has to change.

If there isn't a proper CAMHs service then I think the public needs to know that - where have the letters to local papers been? Occasionally one sees a complaint and the trust refutes what has happened. My local trust has 1.5 stars for patient reviews -still it refutes it isn't good enough. If I were running the CCG I wouldn't have renewed its contract and given it more money.

[Runningwithacheesegrater]

I would respect staff for striking specifically for the sake of the patients. That is not what has happened.

You can only legally strike in relation to your own working conditions. The lovely conservatives under Thatcher made sure of that.

You turn up on almost every NHS related thread slating the people trying to hold it together. If you prefer private healthcare you are perfectly entitled to use it, and clearly you are able to afford it. It's only better in terms of swanky surroundings and waiting times. The same doctors and nurses in private care were trained in the NHS.

And it's the same broken NHS that's left picking up the pieces when things go wrong in the private sector, that's why healthcare insurance premiums are currently relatively cheap. Your premiums don't factor in things like the cost of ICU care because the NHS foots the bill.

Don't expect any NI back though, because when this government finish selling off the last scrap of our healthcare system, the rest of us won't be getting a refund either.

[BeaufortBelle]

I'm afraid I can only base my opinions on the basis of what I have seen and how it has impacted my family. At present the service is not good enough. That has nothing to do with Thatcher and everything to do with the fact that the principles behind the NHS were doomed to failure from the start. Bevin had to stuff the doctors mouths with gold to make them agree to it in the first place. The biggest drain on the NHS in recent times was the setting up of PCTs at a time when fundholding was beginning to work extremely effectively. That introduced a whole new layer of bureaucracy and management that took care and resources away from the patients. That was the first thing introduced by Labour when they came into power because they couldn't stick the thought of fundholding even when the BMA and GP groups advised them that the system was effective and starting to work really well both for the professionals within and the patients without.

There are two options. Either we pay more and increase the amount of GDP, and I have no issue whatsoever in doing that, but if that happens then I would expect a significantly improved service and far less waste within it. Or, there is an introduction of greater privatisation and funding happens that way. What cannot continue is the present situation where there aren't enough resources but this isn't being properly acknowledged and the public are supposed to put up with it and be grateful because it's "free". Inadequate services often delivered in suboptimal environments are not acceptable whether they are free or not.

It isn't a sacred cow and it needs to stop being excused because of the original principles behind it. They don't exist any more and society has changed. If the number of times I used the NHS and it was excellent outweighed the number of times I use it and it isn't then my view would be different.

[GirlsTimesThree]

Beaufort The 'service' you have does sounds awful and I feel for you. I'm glad your daughter is making good progress now.
It's extremely frustrating to see services being lost (or in your case, not fit for purpose).
A few years ago my DH and some colleagues set up a service for young people. It was very successful in terms of outcome for those young people - fewer admissions to hospital, those who were admitted had shorter stays, more could stay in education or work, fewer had relapses. The support in the community from a multidisciplinary team was very good. It was good for the young people and good economically. It saved more money than it spent as obviously fewer people in hospital and continuing to work is the best outcome, both personally and to the wider economy.
Then the funding was cut drastically. That service is no longer there and neither are most of people who worked so hard to develop it. It's shameful and very sad for the people who benefitted from it.

[Runningwithacheesegrater]

Then write to your MP about it Beaufort. If you acknowledge that there aren't enough resources then channel your discontent in a way that may possibly make a difference. There is no use having a go at the frontline workers about it, because there is nothing they can do about funding being cut.

The public shouldn't put up with it. You should be bloody outraged that what was a healthcare system that was the envy of many and at the cutting edge of training and research is being starved to death. I didn't grow up in the UK, and have experience of several healthcare systems. It makes me unbearably sad to see what is happening to one of the best things about this country.

[BeaufortBelle]

I have written to my MP and have met with him and the lead commissioner. Changes are taking place here but the people in the system should never have allowed it to deteriorate as far as it did. When the depth of the issues became apparent more money was put in although I still think there are significant capability issues,at Trust level. I have declined their overtures to become a non exec because I don't think I would be able to give it the commitment it deserves before I retire and at present my extra reserves are fir supporting my DD and what little free time I have is firstly for her.

I think you and I must differ a little because I believe there are too many pockets ill using resources which need to be dealt with before more are given.

If front line workers adopt poor and unprofessional practices, of course they should be in the firing line. If they aren't at work when they are paid to be they must be answerable. If front line staff arrive at 9.15 and leave at 4.45 every day that adds up to two or three young people more who could be assessed each week per person.