To hate this Kind of sneering attitude to places outside London

[wasonthelist]

"many things in life would be better and cheaper if we all just gave up and moved to that six-bed detached in Ashby De La Zouch. But could you really subsist in a place where the height of culinary pleasure is unlimited smarties on your ice cream at the local carvery?"

I am not sure if the author, Caroline Mginn, who wrote that in Time Out -
a) Really believes that Ashby has such limited culinary offerings (it doesn't)?
b) Thought she was preaching to the converted and no-one outside London would read it?

I think it goes both ways OP. I hear London described as grey dingy dirty overcrowded miserable unfriendly. But I love it here, from the peaceful "green" you can find if you choose to enjoy where you live, Richmond Barnes & Kingston riverbanks being my faves amongst others, to the good public transport system which means I don't have to drive if I don't want to, and the numerous choices re. social and arts life and going out to indulge hobbies I have here. I really like the countryside too; for the peace, headspace and beautiful scenery. I just wouldn't ever want to live there although I love visiting. Id miss the convenience of London.

lurked101 - yes there are, but there are also some amazing cityscapes and resources in London. I can see why people fetishise it. Plenty of shitty bits though.

I said 'nice coffee' anyway, not coffee in general. Like the difference between a Costa cappuccino and a er good cappuccino I guarantee you, where I come from (not saying where) if you asked for a flat white you'd get the evil eye (good coffee or no).

I loved London when I was young. It was such a fantastic, mixed, vibrant city. I still go a couple of times a year, and enjoy the galleries, restaurants etc (and the parks, gotta love the parks) but it makes me sad how different it is now.
The property gold rush has ruined the city for most ordinary people-well, ones who didn't buy a place 10+ years ago, and the social cleansing going on is disgusting. Even when I lived there, there seemed to be this growing two tier community in most inner London neighbourhoods, with the council tenants /native residents on one side, and the very rich on the other.

I think that's got worse. And it's interesting how most high streets in London are still pretty grim, not changed much in years, and frequented by getting poorest, while turn any corner off the high street and all the houses are worth 3 million quid.
It's such an odd feeling place now.
I get really angry when people suggest (on here a LOT) that anyone complaining about the high cost of housing in London should suck it up and move away.
There are thousands of Londoners who have been there generations, and it's not their fault that their little corner of Holloway, or Greenwich or wherever has now been designated for the wealthy.
So, I love London, but couldn't live there because all this makes me sad.

TBF I think Costa isn't that bad, its a hell of a lot better than the dross that used to pass for coffee in the 80s, there are also more Costa/Pret/Starbucks type places in London than anywhere else.

Its still a fab city though, I quite like having coffee convinient!

Oh, God I love the transport there though, it's fab whizzing round with ds
on the tube/overground.

Ah, this is what you need OP

[http://brilliantmaps.com/north-london-uk-stereotype/]

Sorry - link fail

brilliantmaps.com/north-london-uk-stereotype/

Ifnow....

I'm tired of this argument about property too, but for different reasons.

Many of places like Holloway and Greenwich have improved massively over the last 20 years due to investment from both private and public sources. Lets be honest if these places hadn't improved the people who complain about not being able to afford to live there wouldn't want to.

We moved in the early 90s to an area that horrified people, it was cheap, but well connected and had big houses that needed work. There were squats on our road and an "interesting" night life. Its now super desireable, yet still lots of people I know turn their noses up at similar areas that are "up and coming" (and you may have to wait to see the benefits of this) but want to buy at cheap prices in areas that are in demand instead. The bitching and moaning regarding this is ridiculous. Just because you grew up in an area doesn't give you the right to live there all of your life. times change and things move on.

London does need more social housing though

I said 'nice coffee' anyway, not coffee in general. Like the difference between a Costa cappuccino and a er good cappuccino grin I guarantee you, where I come from (not saying where) if you asked for a flat white you'd get the evil eye (good coffee or no).

I live in a town that is universally panned on MN as being a shithole.
Right now, 3.40 on a Sunday, I could walk from my house to at least four independent coffee shops where I could get a flat white. And I good flat white made from freshly ground beans that are either roasted on site or very locally.
On a week day and Saturday there are another two coffee shops that I can think of. My local pub sells properly made coffee too (as well as vegan burgers).

Just because you grew up in an area doesn't give you the right to live there all of your life.
See..I think it does, in a way. Many people I knew in London, who were from the local, area were reliant on Mum or Nan for childcare, for example. People need communities, not just property.

Are there any "up and coming " areas actually in London proper now though? AFAIK even shitty places I wouldn't want to live are way beyond the reach of normal people.
I have lived all over London, often in places that were not so salubrious, but at least they were mixed.
Now its positively feudal. Nothing matters except the land grab. It's killing independent business as well, as the rents or so extortionate.

In fact the last couple of time I have been in London I couldn't find any independent coffee shops. I know there must be loads but I was buggered if I could find them.

See..I think it does, in a way. Many people I knew in London, who were from the local, area were reliant on Mum or Nan for childcare, for example. People need communities, not just property.

I can't afford to live where I grew up because it is full of people from London who have moved out to the country for a better life when their children cam along.

So, the annexing of London for the rich has a knock on effect..
There are even places up here in the darkest North that are getting full of southerners in search of a home they can afford in nice surroundings.
Maybe someone on MN told them to stop being so entitled, thinking they could still live in London !

I've lived here for decades ifnot and I firmly disagree, for a start how far back do we go to "living here for generations" cause there was such a flux of people during the 1950s and the war that very, very few people could claim to have been here for an extremely long time. I live in a great community, but a community in a city that is so transient takes time to build and thats a difficult thing, you can't just sit where you are and expect to stay when everything else is changing.

There are loads of "up and coming" places, you just need to realise that the gains made by people in the last 20 years are unlikely to happen again, but that property won't really fall in value and give it a go. Harlesden, Colindale, Enfield, Tottenham, Palmers Green but if you mention this to people they turn up their noses. A complete lack of awareness that when I first moved here people did the same when Crouch End was mentioned, and absolutely no one wanted to live in Finsbury Park when I rented on the Stroud Green Road in the 1980s.

Also, I think you'd struggle to find areas of London that aren't mixed, my area mixed, the area I work in mixed, Westminster is mixed, Hackney is mixed, Brent, Enfield, Harringay are all mixed. Your exaggerating massively.

Living there for generations doesn't give you the right to stay, especially as most property in London is lease hold in the first place.

You tend to find that once you live in London Londoners stop sneering about you not being from London and start sneering about which particular part of London you live in. Then when you live in the nice parts of London they find something else to sneer about. So who cares what they think.

I think it's really odd when people say they get less out of London after having dcs. Ours are bigger now but the one o clock clubs (a London thing I think), science museum basement ,the NHM the commons, play grounds and paddling pools were accessible without a car and free. Wonderful way to enjoy small children.

I liked having small children in London too.

Play grounds and paddling pools are available outside London.

Some towns even have the sea.

Not to say that London isn't great for small children if that is your choice, but London doesn't have the exclusivity on parks.

Average house price in London is half a million. Even if you can still buy a house somewhere for £200k, that is still a ridiculously large amount of money when you take into account the deposit required and the fact that interest rates must eventually increase.

I don't think I have a particular right to live in London because my family is from London (although I also think the logic extends and that I have a right to live anywhere else without being written off as an incomer).

However, there is no way that London house prices are anything other than completely ridiculous and eventually unsustainable given that everywhere needs teachers, nurses etc. etc.

I think what I loved was having the choice of 10's of different parks within walking/ biking / bus distance.

Merry... you know about averages right? It means that there are a lot of properties worth less than £500,000 out there. Also the London average is skewed by far higher prices in zones 1 and 2.

Yes it is difficult for a single person on the London average to get on the housing ladder, but not impossible with things like shared ownership.
Its also much easier for a couple on the London median salary of £34, 473 each to get on as that gives you a combined income of just about £69,000 and a take home pay individually each month of £2,082 and combined of £4,164.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-53102386.html
This one bed flat in sought after Highbury is £1,885 a month. You can get cheaper! So £2,277 a month left over, take £277 a month off for bills and they have £2000 a month to spend as discretionary income. I reckon a couple could easily cut their cloth so that for a year they could live on £1000 a month for food/entertainment etc.

That gives you £12, 000 deposit and with £69,000 you could concievably borrow £276,000 so could afford flats of nearly £290,000. Easily done in areas that are in less demand.

I'll go back to what I said earlier, housing in London isn't that big of a problem if you cut your cloth, like everyone normal has always had to do!

Lurked it isn't reasonable for a couple to spend more than half their take home pay on rent and bills, it really isn't

I love living in London but there is an element of being spoiled for choice - previously I would go to the theatre most weeks and see whatever was on at one of the two theatres; now even pre-kids I'd think about seeing something and quite often finally decide and then find I couldn't get tickets!

If you can't drive for medical reasons, being in London is generally a good choice (other places with public transport exist).

Thing is, half the country's population does live in or within commuting distance of London, and most of the rest could get to it more cheaply than many other cities, so the London-centric media do have a point...

And you're suggesting that they could put down about a 4% deposit on a mortgage and not even include stamp duty, legal fees and moving costs?

What a naive approach. Impossible to do.