WIBU to confront licence holder who sold whisky to my brother?

[shockthemonkey]

My brother has been drinking 2 litres of whisky a day for a year. He has refused to let us visit him, and stopped answering the phone to me a long time ago. Family finally managed (with profressional help) to gain access to his house and get him into hospital. His prognosis is not good.

I found bank statements and marched into the off-licence where he has been buying his drink for the past year. This shop continued selling 2 litres of whisky a day to someone who was visibly deteriorating in front of their eyes and very obviously had a serious problem. I showed them a picture of my brother and told them I would make sure they lost their licence if they ever sold to him again (actually my brother is unlikely to return to live there anyway). It got heated (the proprietor wanted to know why I was not looking after him! said it was no concern of hers who was a chronic alcoholic and who wasn't: it was our problem -- never mind that we don't live in the same country and have families of our own to look after!).

I'd just like to know where the law stands on this; the granting of a licence implies some duty of care, I should think, but how far does this extend? I would imagine the main concern is public safety, nuisance and underage drinking -- not in fact concerns arising from my brother's case as he is an adult and very mild-mannered. But it would seem crazy if there were no expectation of ethical conduct that went along with the granting of a licence.

I just cannot get over that this woman felt no guilt about it all -- thanks to her inaction my brother will probably die quite soon. Fine, she's lacking a moral compass, but what about the law? I don't want to pursue the matter as it happens, but would like to know for future reference, should anything similar ever happen again.

Thanks if you can give me some info.

[jacks11]

Shock

I can understand your frustration with the situation and the worry over your brother's health. It sounds like you've gone above and beyond the call of duty to assist your brother. Now, other than providing support if asked, there is nothing more you can do. If he doesn't want to stop, then there is no way you can do it for him- no matter how much money you throw at it. You need to look after yourself (and the same goes for your mum/sisters too). It is very hard.

All of that said, YABU with regard to the shop-keeper. Unless he was visibly intoxicated, then legally the shop-keeper has done nothing wrong. Morally? I think that is a little more complicated, but in essence it is not up to her to prevent him drinking. He probably would have gone somewhere else. I think it is easy to want to lash out and blame someone, have someone else to focus the anger on. It's understandable. But I do think you were in the wrong.

And I see you say he must have been constantly drunk and so evidently appeared intoxicated- I'm afraid this is not necessarily the case. It is possible, of course. However, I used to work in the gastro department and a big part of our patient cohort were those who had alcoholic liver disease. We used to manage a joint service with the alcohol cessation unit. Patients who had drunk really heavily over an extended period of time often built up fairly extreme tolerance and could have consumed considerable amount of alcohol with very few obvious effects. I am talking people drinking upwards of 70-100 units a day- so equal to/more than your brother. They would come to clinic or clerking on admission and there were signs but if all you were doing was a simple transaction, you wouldn't necessarily have picked it up.

I wouldn't go back to the shop and speak to them/threaten them with legal action/reporting. It's just going to upset you and change nothing. If you go back and continue to "confront them" the situation could escalate (if they view it as harassment). Either report them to the authorities and let them investigate or let it go..

[LastFirstEverything]

for you OP. Meant to add them in my post.

[NerrSnerr]

I'm really sorry OP. I have lost a sibling to alcohol so have an idea what you're going through.

There is nothing you can do to help unless he wants to help himself. You were unfair to the shop keeper and owe her an apology. He would have got his alcohol elsewhere or ending up having a fit. It's really not fair that you blame her for this, it's a horrendous situation but she is not to blame.

[shockthemonkey]

Thank you everyone. I accept IWBU. But I am still grieving. I cannot accept that I am losing him to this. He is actually really suffering too, and wants to die. I would love to help him in a way that he can accept, but I can't. He wants to die and I want him to get better.

I don't know how I can possibly give up while he's still breathing.

I also know the four Cs but I don't really accept that I had no part in causing it: he is harbouring significant hurt deep down and some of that would have come from his early childhood experiences, when I was around...

It's true that it's not because of her that my brother will die, I accept that too. But it is true that she found it reasonable to carry on making money off of someone so ill, and whose illness she was enabling.

I also accept that he may not have appeared drunk, even though he would only have managed to get out after having first had a good fortifying tipple... he MAY not have appeared drunk to someone who didn't know him, although I am sure that if you were looking hard enough you would have been quite certain (slurring his words etc).

I won't be able to apologise to her because I have since returned home (I live abroad) and don't plan to go back there. But I am also still too wrapped up in his pain.

[jacks11]

thanks to her inaction my brother will probably die quite soon

I also would second ziggy's comment regarding this. You're brother, and he alone, had the power to help himself. It sounds like he certainly had plenty of support had he chosen to do so.

If, despite all of the effort, time and money you as a family have put into trying to help your brother, he still continues to drink then I don't think it is fair or realistic to place all the blame on the shop-keeper. Understandable, but wrong.

[LastFirstEverything]

I also know the four Cs but I don't really accept that I had no part in causing it: he is harbouring significant hurt deep down and some of that would have come from his early childhood experiences, when I was around...

Oh OP, I empathise with you so much. I feel exactly this for my late brother.

It is so very hard, so very upsetting and you are not to blame- but I totally understand that you feel responsibility. Try to be kind to yourself, self compassion is so important. You sound like a wonderful and supportive sister. No one is perfect, and nor is any situation. You have done what you can.

Thinking of you and your brother. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

[jacks11]

sorry OP, cross-posted with you.

I hope you find a way to come to terms with things, however they pan out. Grieving is a painful process. Guilt is part of that- but please don't let it fester. Even if his behaviour was triggered by distress caused by something which happened when you are around, that does not make you responsible. Your brother had the responsibility to address this, as part of addressing his alcohol dependency. He had support to do so, yet did not. it is his responsibility I am afraid and there is nothing you could have done to make him take the help on offer.

I worry from the tone of your post about your own mental health. I think you should seek some support for yourself. Good luck OP.

[shockthemonkey]

I really thank you all. And flowers back to everyone who has experienced similar. Some of you have had much worse. My sympathies, and my thanks also to those who have shared legal and/or medical knowledge. It has been helpful.

I will try to get back to Al anon... I know I need it

[PouletDePrintemps]

But it is true that she found it reasonable to carry on making money off of someone so ill, and whose illness she was enabling.

I still think this is very unfair. She just did her job. It's not for her to decide who can buy what drink unless they are breaking the law as stated above, and as you admitted he may not have appeared drunk to her.

I am sorry for the pain that you are going through. I do also feel for the shopkeeper if you were as harsh to her as you were in your OP. She may very well feel like shit when she really does not deserve it.

I actually feel really angry on behalf of the shopkeeper.

[OnIlkelyMoorBahtat]

The shopkeeper will get over it: they'll have heard worse before. Your grief and pain got the upper hand that time - it happens to us all. All the best to you OP, you are a wonderful sister to your brother, but it's time for you to start healing yourself now xxx

[lazyarse123]

I really think you are being out of order regarding your opinion of the shopkeeper, she is in business to make money not to be your brothers keeper. If you couldn't stop him how is she supposed to?

[lazyarse123]

cross post PouletDePrintems, I completely agree with you.

[ifyoulikepinacolada]

to you OP. You accept you were being unreasonable - although I can understand why you did it. My stepfather is a heroin addict so I do empathise. Look after yourself.