Please tell me this is selfish and I'm not slipping back into depressive behaviour

[Greyparting]

DH and I are trying to conceive. We already have DD who is wonderful, but time is cracking on at a frightening pace and I'm quite aware that time is running out for us (well, me really) to conceive.

Here's my issue: DH does not want to curb his drinking habits. He has drank every weekend for the past month or so at levels I am sure are potentially affecting his fertility. Over 1 night he will have a bottle of wine to himself and a couple of ciders. He thinks this is not binge drinking and is perfectly acceptable.

Just to clarify, I am not asking him to stop drinking completely, just that the period while we are trying to conceive to tone it down a bit to non binge levels. A couple of glasses of wine is enough surely?

Its the fact that it's been several weekends on the trot, last weekend it was a bottle of prosecco to himself and beers.

Maybe I'm too cautious but I really did think that drinking to excess weekly would be damaging to fertility?

Bit of background which might explain why I'm so upset by this. I had a terrible, traumatic birth with DD, left with many injuries as a result of hospital negligence and left without the use of my leg for several months after. I am diagnosed with PTSD and undergoing counselling and on medication. The PTSD has undoubtedly affected my thought processes and I fully accept that for a time I could be completely irrational and very difficult to live with.

At the moment I do feel well though. This argument has thrown me. Why, after everything I went through with DD, can he not just make a tiny, tiny sacrifice for a matter of weeks?

I feel so sad about it.

[theycallmemellojello]

Erp I'm going to stick my bel out and say that he is not necessarily being unreasonable. That's a lot, but if it truly is just once a week and the only problem is that you think it affects fertility then I do kind of think that it's a bit harsh calling him selfish about, and I can understand why he's upset. I am fairly sure that one bottle of wine a week has no effect on male fertility.

[Greyparting]

www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/fertility-and-pregnancy/is-alcohol-harming-your-fertility

It isn’t just female fertility that’s affected by alcohol. Dr Patrick O’Brien, spokesperson for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, says: “Excessive alcohol lowers testosterone levels and sperm quality and quantity in men. It can also reduce libido, and cause impotence."If a man drinks heavily it can really reduce a couple’s chances of conceiving. However, if you reduce what you drink, these effects can be quickly reversed. "I would recommend that men definitely stay within the government's lower risk guidelines (3-4 units - equivalent to a pint and a half of 4% beer) if they’re trying for children with their partners,” says Dr O’Brien.Deirdre Armstrong is a conception coach at the Edinburgh Natural Fertility Clinic, which gives couples extra help to conceive using treatments like acupuncture, herbal medicine and by advising them on nutrition. The impact of alcohol on men’s fertility is something she sees daily.

[Wolfiefan]

The op did not say a bottle of wine a week. I could drink a bottle over that time period. Easily.
She said a bottle PLUS ciders a night. That's loads.
And he's getting stroppy about the prospect of not having it. That's a problem.
It's not about the conception. It's about having an unhealthy relationship with booze.

[ovenchips]

Actually OP I have just reread your first post. Your closing comment Why after everything I went through with DD, can he not make this tiny, tiny sacrifice for a few weeks? describes the nub of your distress.

You have been through so much and you are now looking for your DH to show some sacrifice too, to acknowledge everything awful that happened to you to get your first child. You now feel it's his turn.

That is why it is distressing you. You feel his refusal to reduce his drinking is almost a dismissal of your trauma. You have made a connection between these two separate situations that wouldn't normally exist because in a wider sense you feel your pain has not been acknowledged.

I think this acknowledgement/ validation by your husband of the enormity of what happened to you having your DD may be what is missing. I suspect if you addressed that issue together your alcohol while TTC issue would disappear.

I wish you well.

[Lucylongcat]

How old are you OP? I'm trying to get a feel for the window if opportunity you feel you have.

[Greyparting]

Thank you wolfie. That is the issue here.

A bottle of wine over a couple of nights, no problem at all. What I would consider normal levels, a couple if glasses a night.

So many people on here seem to panic at the thought of drinking a bottle of wine to yourself in one sitting might be a bad thing for your health.

Everyone does it don't they? Well, no problem then, perfectly normal, common place and therefore it's obviously safe.

[IrenetheQuaint]

To clarify, he only drinks at this level one night a week and otherwise doesn't drink much/at all?

[slebmum1]

Op is there a reason to think you may have problems conceiving?

[theycallmemellojello]

I don't think you can dismiss differing views as coming from people panicking about the idea of dunking a bottle of wine in one sitting as unhealthy. To clarify, if throw up if I drank that much and I don't do it! But I do think that it doesn't sound like he has a drinking problem, and if the only negative effect is potential effect on fertility, then I don't think that a wife's "right" to have a husband in peak fertility trumps a husband's right to engage in behaviour that is unhealthy but not harmful to anyone else. It's a tricky issue because it touches on bodily autonomy.

[Mellifera]

I agree with ovenchips

You have connected the two and it makes you feel vulnerable.

Talk to him. I think a bottle of wine per person is too much, never mind beer/cider on top.
Address this issue without bringing your trauma into it, it has nothing to do with it. He has a problem and you should be able to discuss this with him.

[Lucylongcat]

Whilst it's not the healthiest option, many of us do things that aren't totally healthy. We eat the wrong foods, don't exercise enough, have stressful jobs, etc. What's more, we have the right to knowingly make those wrong choices for ourselves. Whilst we can encourage people to make better choices, ultimately we only really have control over or own.
If his drinking isn't causing any problems for OP, such as missing work, mood swings etc. then I don't think she should dictate to him the way he should live his life.
The trying to conceive adds another level, because in that case it does impact on a decision they've made together. What I'm not getting from the post is any real reason why they are in a desperate rush to conceive. Some people feel this pressure because they've now turned thirty, which would seem a bit premature and neurotic to me, whereas thirty seven with a history of early menopause would be an entirely different kettle of fish.

[museumum]

Ignoring the details of the quantity of drinking, It sounds like you are taking TTC really really seriously and he is taking it really really casually.

I can't help feel you can meet in the middle somewhere.

You seem to really be feeling a time pressure. Does your dh know/feel it too?
It sounds like for you a few months of just casually having sex without contraception would not be "trying" enough. Is that right?
But it sounds like your dh doesn't want to change his life at all for TTC and is digging his heels in on principle.

[Shesinfashion]

Is there a reason you feel you'll have trouble conceiving? I got knocked up both times with mine whilst me and DP were hammered. I was 38 too.

[Greyparting]

I am seriously agog at some of the responses here.

Just to answer a few questions:

I'd rather not say my age, this will just be an invitation for scores of women to charge in, telling me they managed to have wonderful healthy children in their mid forties. That is truly wonderful and I'm happy for these ladies.
But I don't want to wait that long.
I don't want to put my body through any more stress than is necessary. I don't want to up my risks of pregnancy complications or the hugely increased risk of genetic or chromosomal problems with my baby.
I (and of course we) have really had enough heartache, pain and trauma with DD. I don't want any more. And if I can take steps to TRY and minimise that risk, I bloody well will.

How's that for autonomy?

To be honest, the talk of me daring to suggest he simply cuts down in drinking so much (due to overwhelming advice from obstetricians) equalling me somehow depriving him of his bodily autonomy is laughable.
He agreed to have another baby. It's a team effort. I might be a useless old, naive dreamer, but I like the idea of relationships being give and take. Doing things to show support, care and solidarity. I guess this time, a couple of glasses of wine trumps that.

Happy days.

[theycallmemellojello]

I don't think that the problem is that you "dared to suggest" it. It's fine to suggest it. And if his drinking is causing other problems, then there may be other factors to consider in wanting him to cut down. But I think he's also within his rights to make decisions that don't maximise his fertility. And obviously your bodily autonomy is equally important - of course he would not be able to expect that you have a child at an age older than you're comfortable with! Definitely not. But your right to say you don't want a child above X age is not the same as a right to say that your DH must do everything in his power to make sure he can give you a child before X age.

[Katenka]

Hmm this is a difficult one.

Personally I think unless you know he has low fertility, Yabu.

If you felt uncomfortable with how much he drank because of is health I could see your point.

But the fact that you want him to stop just because you are ttc, when you have no idea if it is effecting anything, is what makes me think Yabu.

You say you can't and won't have a drink even though you want one. But the truth is you are choosing not to. Nothing wrong with that. But that's your choice.

[Katenka]

I do also get the impression that you absolutely think you are being reasonable. Did you hope everyone would agree?

[Greyparting]

No it doesn't.

I think that clears it up then.

I don't want another child with someone who is so determined to exercise that right, for reasons I just don't understand.

It's so easy to say this, I know- but truly, if the roles were reversed I can honest say I wouldn't be prioritising my short term pleasure over this issue.

[Greyparting]

Obviously I don't think it's good for his health either!

No, I didn't hope everyone would agree, I was after some opinions on whether or not the amount he was drinking was potentially too much (either or his health or fertility) I think it's fair to say opinion is split on that one.

The general advice out there is when trying to conceive, stick to 3 to 4 units a day.

There are around 10 units in a bottle of wine, plus the extra 6 to 8 in the beers.

Why am I being beaten over the head when there is medical advice echoing my suggestions?

[Greyparting]

I'm not asking him to do everything in his power. I'm not asking him to do anything outlandish or repressive. To simply try cutting down on alcohol consumption to see of it helps is conceive earlier.

[JohnLuther]

He's not drinking every day though is he?

[Katenka]

You aren't been beaten over the head.

I just don't agree with you. Drinking may effect fertility. But you having being ttc long enough to even suspect there is an issue.

Your response do suggest to me that you are very anxious over this. I understand that.

But I don't agree he should stop drinking because you have and you 'think' it will hugely improve your chances of ttc.

If he drinks so much you are worried for his health why have you not tackled this before with him. If you have why would you ttc again with a man with a drinking problem?

I am not having a go. It's a genuine question. You seem to go back and forth on wether the drinking is a problem away from ttc.

[theycallmemellojello]

Greyparting, I'm sorry, I truly don't mean to come across as beating you across the head. Yes, he is definitely drinking more than is healthy. It would be best for his health to cut down a bit. It might or might not help you guys conceive (I have no idea). And yes, I guess he is putting his vice ahead of your happiness, in the sense that you've asked him to cut down and he won't. But I guess I just don't agree with the principle that one partner has the right to control what the other does with their body when it's not directly causing harm to others. Obesity in women makes it harder to conceive (I think), but I wouldn't think it was ok for a man to demand that a woman lose weight in order to maximise her chances of conception, for example.

[ovenchips]

I think OP that because IMHO you don't want/ can't see that you are conflating two issues - the terrible experience you went through having your DD and your DH's refusal to reduce his once a week skinful, the best advice I can give is to tell your DH that this is what you are doing.

Tell him that you want him to reduce his drinking while you TTC because you need him to do something for you this time. That it is a very clear signal to you of whether he is prepared to make any sacrifice or not to acknowledge your traumatic time. That you need a sign that he will make even a 'tiny, tiny' sacrifice for you.

That you feel you need to try and take as much control of this future pregnancy as you possibly can, to avoid the terrible first time experience. It must be frightening to think that in order to have another child you need to go through giving birth again.

He might understand more and 'hear' you more then and get just how important this issue is to you, even though it isn't to him. Seems like an important thing for you both to talk about whatever.

And again, best of luck.

[hownottofuckup]

Isn't it about 15 units a week for a male? So he"s not far off.
I think you're being over the top, which is probably why he's not listening to your concerns.
If he had 3-4 units daily that would 21 over the course of 7 days. More than he's having now.
I don't blame him for saying no tbh. I think you should calm down.