To have lost my shit with dd2?

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Ok I think I probably was. But I'm exhausted.

Dd2 has zero contact with her father (through a court order). She is 5. I don't have much in the way of support from family or friends. I love the bones of her but find her completely fucking exhausting. Because I'm all she has our relationship is very intense and I find it hard to cope with sometimes.

She can't bear it if I talk to other people, for example if I'm sitting talking to a friend she will physically stand in between us and block the conversation, having to tell me something super urgent about shopkins or something, that apparently can't wait. She does this whenever I try to talk to anyone. Same goes for conversations on the phone, she'll go from not wanting to speak to me to all of a sudden having 1001 urgent things to tell me.

Tonight's particular episode - we have been out all day together doing stuff, she's had my full attention. I start talking about bedtime and she tells me she wants to sleep in my bed. I told her no (because she is a complete pain in the arse to sleep next to), I'm tired and just want a night in my own bed without being kicked etc every thirty seconds. So she goes nuclear at this, which started the next power struggle of trying to get her up the stairs. I went upstairs and asked her to come up, after various threats etc she made it, but after cleaning her teeth she claimed to be incapable of walking the last 2 metres to her room. She wanted me to carry her and I said no because I had a bad back. Cue 5 minutes of her screaming at me, so I told her if she wasn't in her room by the time I counted to 3 she wasn't getting a story. She gave me a defiant look, I counted to three, then put her in bed and turned the light off and left her screaming. She's asleep now but I feel like a shitbag.

It's like this a lot of the time. Endless power games and her trying to dictate what happens. Probably quite normal 5 year old stuff but what's hard is the endlessness of it. She goes to school and I miss her, then I pick her up and within half an hour she's driving me nuts. I am studying so even when she's at school I don't get time to myself. I can't think about having a relationship, partly because I'm depressed and not in the right place, and partly because I hardly ever get any time away from her so it's not logistically possible. I've accepted that's just how it is but bloody hell its hard work doing this 365 days a year.

[ForChina]

I'm so sorry for all you've been through. She does sound insecure and although she may not remember the kidnapping she can probably remember a 'fear' that she can't understand - wanting mummy and mummy not being there. Being sore and nobody helping her. When I first read your post I was thinking that she needs stronger boundaries but actually having read the update I think it sounds hugely understandable after all she's been through. She will most likely not understand why she feels as she does but the only way you can get through it is reassurance, which will be exhausting for you.

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong (I personally don't threaten 'no story' as I think story is important and is a useful, special, relaxing time for us both but that's not to say it's wrong to do so). You're allowed to be human too.

[GasLIghtShining]

I just felt so shitty listening to her wailing herself to sleep saying 'I want a story!'. I always read her a story.

We've all been there feeling guilty but we have to follow through. You told her what the consequence would be and she ignored you.

It sounds like you have a lot on you plate what with uni as well. Would it worth having a chat with your doctor?

[AvaCrowder]

I agree with youarentkiddingme to try to frame things in a positive way, eg what story shall we read tonight? I like xxx which one would you like? How about I find it while you brush your teeth...

She can sleep in your bed when your back is better.

My ds interrupts a lot, I think it's important to raise him not to be quite so rude. He is a bit older, but I'd rather him be 7 and hear it from me than be 22 (like me) and hear it from a friend's dad.

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

To answer a couple of questions - no she has never had any therapy and I understand about attachment so agree that could have something to do with the way she is now. Not sure how I would go about accessing help for her though?

She knows she does have a father out there somewhere and at this point all I've told her is that he's not very well so he can't see her. She never expresses any desire to see him and doesn't seem bothered when dd1 goes to her dad as she gets me all to herself, which is what she wants, so I think she considers it a win.

[Brioche201]

Losing your shit means losing your temper. Your op doesn't give the impression that you lost your temper. Did you?

[imwithspud]

Just read your more recent posts. How heartbreaking for you to have your daughter kidnapped by her father and to have no idea where she is. I would have lost my mind during that time, you sound like a very strong and amazing lady. I agree with the others in that what happened might be having some effect on her behaviour now, even if she can't remember or understand it. You absolutely did the right thing by standing your ground over the bedtime fiasco. But her 'clingyness' is probably more deep rooted and her being kidnapped may have created some sort of insecurity in that respect. It might be worth speaking to a hv, her school or possibly a gp to se if there's any way of supporting her, whilst encouraging her that it's okay to leave your side and that you're not going anywhere. She manages at school so I'm sure she can manage at home too, it would probably do you both good to get a little break now and then. Even if it's just you sitting with a cuppa whilst she's playing in her room or what ever.

[Aussiemum78]

A good child psychologist might be in order? It sounds like she isn't coping emotionally. I'm guessing her attachment was disrupted by the trauma of being abducted.

My advice would to be consistent, firm and fair. Make her routines very predictable, set very simple rules and stick to them, and positive reinforcement of improvements (getting ready for bed nicely, not interrupting). You might need to be boringly predictable for her to show improvement. Staying calm is the challenge.

Do you have a friend or relative who could take her for a few hours a week and build a relationship with? I think it would be good for dd1 to have time with you, but dd2 will also get a stable attachment with another adult that takes some pressure off you,

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Ava - I don't really want her in my bed full stop to be honest. She wriggles all night, I'm tired and grumpy the next day, and it's the only chance I get for some peace and quiet!

I didn't shout at her or anything. Although I had previously got quite cross with her about the sleeping in my bed thing when she wouldn't drop it.

[tethersend]

Start with the GP or HV if she is still under one.

It certainly sounds like her needs were not met whilst she was not with you, and it must be awful for you not knowing what she went through. She sounds like she is in a place where she cannot trust that you will always be there, and spends every waking minute trying to ensure that you are. She must be exhausted too. As ForChina says, she's perhaps not doing this consciously, so I'm wondering if choices and consequences for her behaviour will be effective, TBH.

This is such an unusual and complex situation that none of us are able to tell you if her early experiences are driving her behaviour or not; but her behaviour in light of her early experience certainly warrants further attention from a qualified professional.

[GasLIghtShining]

Fluffy I would have a talk with her doctor and see if she can be referred to someone (not sure who). Worth a try

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

In one way she's more than happy to leave my side, if it's school (which she enjoys) or one of her activities or a play date etc, basically something SHE wants to do. However on the rare occasions she stays with my dm so I can go out she works herself into a frenzy about it and I have to make my escape with her clinging onto my leg and dragging herself across the floor begging me not to leave her.

Then 30 seconds after I've gone apparently she's fine and has a nice time. So not sure if it's genuine distress or more power games?

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Aussiemum - she is quite close to one of my neighbours who has recently offered to look after her while I spend time with dd1 maybe once a month or something. Definitely need to take her up on that.

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Tethers - that's interesting, thank you. If they refer her to CAHMS though I won't hold out too much hope, been there and done that with dd1 and they were pretty useless.

[tethersend]

Please don't mistake that worrying behaviour for power games- it must feel like power games, especially with the relentlessness of it all, but I think it would be a mistake to assume that that's what the behaviour is.

She may well have developed coping strategies in certain situations, and is able to sufficiently 'squash' the fear to be able to go to school, play with friends and stay with your mum. That doesn't mean that the fear isn't real or overwhelming when she's not squashing it down.

As I said, none of us can say what the issue is, only a professional can- but treating the behaviour as a power game may well exacerbate it if it stems from her traumatic experience.

[tethersend]

Agree about CAMHS... but not all services are equal; it's possible that your DD2 might be able to access a type of therapy which helps. Worth a shot, it must be bloody exhausting for you both

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Thanks tethers - and interesting that you use the word fear, as since the kidnapping she has had various different extreme fears that have appeared from nowhere, gone on for several months, then disappeared again. For example water, which included swimming, baths and showers, I had to sponge wash her for about 6 months. Another one was wind, if there was so much as a slight breeze we were on lockdown in the house. Not just a bit scared, but completely unable to cope petrified.

[cestlavielife]

Consult a child psychologist family therapist to work with her and you. You may think she is ok not having a fad (effectively) but you don't know...a good psy hologist or family therapist can find our how she feels thru different tools and techniques. .

I don't think taking away story time is a good punishment. For any child. Reading together Story reading is so important for language develomentioned learning to read etc. And using stories to allow child to express feelings by asking open questions about the people in the stories. How did the girl feel ? What happened next? What would you do if you were cinderella? Etc.

[Wolfiefan]

Oh littlefluffy what an awful lot to cope with. You didn't lose it. Losing it would be screaming, lashing out or swearing! You may feel you lacked patience but come on give yourself a break! I'm not a line parent and haven't dealt with half of what you have but I can struggle too.
I would agree with trying to access support through GP or school. For both of you.
You sound like you are doing a wonderful job. X

[cestlavielife]

Could you put a small mattress on the floor near your bed so if she comes to your room to be near you she can sleep there ?

Ask for camhs but a family therapist. They will work with her and you.

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

No it was a crap punishment and that's why I feel shit about it, but on the other hand we do read every night generally and her own reading is well above average for her age so I don't think in that respect missing tonight's story will have damaged her.

[tethersend]

Bloody hell, Little- my heart breaks for you. I really think you should treat the behaviour as trauma-related. If it isn't, no harm done.

If it is, then removing attention, ignoring, punishing is really unlikely to work and may well make it worse.

Were social services ever involved as a result of the kidnapping?

[Sweetsweetjane]

I have a four and five year old. I'm a single mum. I have these battles daily. I think it's pretty standard behaviour intensified by the fact that there's no other adult around to dilute the effects of the behaviour. Sending solidarity.

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

I could put a mattress on the floor but my prediction is the dog would think it's great that I have put a lovely new bed down for him and dd2 would still get in my bed

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

Thanks Jane

Tethers - we had involvement from SWs from CAFCASS during the court case but not apart from that. Her nursery suggested she may be autistic but this was quashed by the ed psych when she started school. She has coped with being at school marvellously, and they get none of the behaviour I get, so they don't see a problem.

[FFSYourself]

Sounds like you did the right thing to me.

I was very forthright with my DC that I needed my own space sometimes. I was clear about it even when they were quite little. I compensated by being a very hands on fun physical mum (sort of ) the rest of the time. I'd give them all my attention for a few hours but then I'd ask for some time without being bugged.
I'd tell them I would be all theirs for two hours but that I'm watching a tv show at 5 and do not expect them to bother me.
I know your DD is still little but can you keep telling her that you need your own space and that you need to be able to chat to other people. I'd keep telling her again and again and again until she gets it. I'd remind her before you see people and reward her when she respects your wishes. You could try some role play if you think it might work. You could practice with some pretend phone calls or play act some role reversal.

Is your DD getting enough sleep. I'm a huge believer that sleep is one of the biggest factors if kids are being naughty. It certainly was with my DC

My DD1 always seemed to want to be physically touching me even as she got older. It used to drive me nuts. Even as an older teen she would lean into me when we were walking and would lie over me if I was sitting on the couch. Her Getting a boyfriend helped a lot.