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To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

1000 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/10/2015 16:06

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

OP posts:
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5
Flossyfloof · 23/10/2015 19:44

Ok, whatwasshethinking - I didn't have the other thread right in front of me. However, it does illustrate how very vulnerable teachers are, although this teacher, as I said, was very misguided and foolish to have said what she did.

leccybill · 23/10/2015 19:45

I'd love to send this thread to Nicky Morgan.
If only she gave a shit...

GiraffesAndButterflies · 23/10/2015 19:46

Emotional blackmail and a never ending workload.

I work in education and have many teacher friends. The reason I didn't go into teaching was that after school/uni, I couldn't face a job where you are expected to take work home and devote your evenings to it- not as an occasional when things are flat out measure, but basically year round, including the mythical holidays. I employed a teacher once who came in for an informal introductory chat just before Christmas, and was surprised that I didn't give her work to take away with her. I wasn't going to be paying her until Jan, but she still expected work. It was her first Christmas off since she graduated.

All well and good, lots of jobs have long hours, but then combined is the pressure (sometimes explicit, always implicit) that you are personally and individually accountable for the wellbeing and the learning of your pupils. I can't think of another profession where this is the case. Medical profession similar, but there's not as much they can / are expected to do for patients when they're not actually on shift (afaik).

I think teachers could cope with all the other bullshit better if it either weren't so unrelenting or if the whole establishment and media didn't make it so personal. I frankly don't know how teachers keep their sanity.

elephantoverthehill · 23/10/2015 19:46

Nowadays most SLT are 'bright young things'. They have possibly done 5-7 years against the chalk face and were young and insanely enthusiastic. Then promoted. They may teach a couple of lessons a week at most, if they manage to get to them. I completely understand the pressures SLT are under and the outside agencies they have to deal with etc. But they are managers. They have lost the ability to understand what it is like to teach, assess, mark and plan for 14 groups a week.

Mehitabel6 · 23/10/2015 19:47

Changes are constantly made- you know it won't work but you have to do it. You work away at it and it isn't given time before 'the powers that be' decide it isn't working and change again!
When I started teaching there was freedom to teach the way that suited you- not stuck in some straight jacket of someone else's way.

Whatwasshethinking · 23/10/2015 19:48

Flossy, I recognise anyone can make a mistake but yours was an exceptionally aggressive post which explicitly named my thread and stated I, as the OP, had said something that not only had I not said, I had actually said the opposite.

Perhaps if that teacher doesn't want to be 'vulnerable', she might be well advised not to break people's noses. I have the highest respect and regard for teachers but blindly defending all that they do to make a point weakens the argument.

Mehitabel6 · 23/10/2015 19:48

It also all goes around in circles - some of the things that were 'in' when I started went 'out' and are now back 'in'!

Whatwasshethinking · 23/10/2015 19:48

*Not to threaten to break people's noses, sorry.

Lowdoorinthewall · 23/10/2015 19:48

I send my DS to a prep. There are regularly threads running on why people choose preps over state primaries.

I always think to myself that reason A for me is that DS's teacher can sleep at night and wake up in the morning with enough energy to smile at her class of 10 children (and her TA) because she doesn't have to deal with all the shit.

Parents' evening- she cheerfully lets me look through DS's commercially produced maths workbook just marked with ticks and his writing book marked in whatever colour pen she had to hand. She would be shot for it in my school. Yet he learns, and bloody well, I'm sure in more than a small part because she has the heart left in her and the head space to actually think about his needs.

Mehitabel6 · 23/10/2015 19:52

My husband was home one day when I was working mornings only and he said 'what are you going to do with your afternoon! I thought he was mad for asking- he thought I was mad for doing it, but it was school work- all afternoon! At least working mornings only gave free evenings and weekends. Full time didn't.

gutrotwein · 23/10/2015 19:55
  1. Relentless assessment to government-set 'targets' from the age of 4; less academic children who fail to meet targets being branded underachievers at such a young age, and carrying that label forward.
  2. Appalling lack of support from outside agencies (mostly through no fault of their own), so teachers become physiotherapists, speech therapists, psychologists and behaviour therapists, without the necessary training or time to do anything properly - so very needy children suffer.

That's really what did it for me - I could cope with the long hours, marking, parents, reporting, day-to-day assessment, planning, etc.

IMO all the problems are political.

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 23/10/2015 20:01

In the school I was in last year, behaviour was appalling but 'standards' still had to be met. What this meant in practice was drilling unenthusiastic year 11s, sometimes for an entire day, on exam skills (my subject is English and many of the pupils hated reading and writing as they had weak literacy skills).

It meant being expected to inflate levels at KS3, which I refused to do, and as a result was asked to go off sick before an inspection.

It meant working out of a prescribed grammar text book for the entire first term of year 7.

It meant never expecting pupils to do any extended reading - just extracts - and no independent reading whatsoever (remember, my subject is English).

This year I gave much more professional autonomy, access to a range of books and a great bunch of supportive colleagues. However, I will probably quit due to poor behaviour and lack of respect in the end. It's a really horrible feeling to have to face a group of hostile 15 year olds if someone is out of line and you have to deal with that. You then have to justify your professional judgments with their year team leader, SLT and sometimes parents. And this can simply be for asking a child to stop interrupting.

And of course, in the face of this hostility and can't-be-arsed attitude, there's still the matter of teaching those ever increasing aspirational targets.

Since when did the word aspirational come to mean average?

cariadlet · 23/10/2015 20:01

I've been teaching for over 20 years and still love being in the classroom with the children. But the job has changed so much in those years. The work load and SMT expectations have increased exponentially, while my professional autonomy has diminished dramatically. I HATE lesson observations and book scrutinies, because it always feels that whatever I do it will never be good enough.

We had a staff meeting a few weeks ago for post-threshold teachers (teachers who have crossed a pay threshold because they are experience, but are not in promoted posts).
We started off by having an exercise where we worked in groups and had to sort the following statements, decided which were the government's professional standards for all classroom teachers and which were for post-threshold teachers:

A teacher must:

  1. Set high expectations which inspire, motivate and challenge pupils establish a safe and stimulating environment for pupils, rooted in mutual respect
? set goals that stretch and challenge pupils of all backgrounds, abilities and dispositions ? demonstrate consistently the positive attitudes, values and behaviour which are expected of pupils.
  1. Promote good progress and outcomes by pupils
? be accountable for pupils’ attainment, progress and outcomes ? be aware of pupils’ capabilities and their prior knowledge, and plan teaching to build on these ? guide pupils to reflect on the progress they have made and their emerging needs ? demonstrate knowledge and understanding of how pupils learn and how this impacts on teaching ? encourage pupils to take a responsible and conscientious attitude to their own work and study.
  1. Demonstrate good subject and curriculum knowledge
? have a secure knowledge of the relevant subject(s) and curriculum areas, foster and maintain pupils’ interest in the subject, and address misunderstandings ? demonstrate a critical understanding of developments in the subject and curriculum areas, and promote the value of scholarship ? demonstrate an understanding of and take responsibility for promoting high standards of literacy, articulacy and the correct use of standard English, whatever the teacher’s specialist subject ? if teaching early reading, demonstrate a clear understanding of systematic synthetic phonics ? if teaching early mathematics, demonstrate a clear understanding of appropriate teaching strategies.
  1. Plan and teach well structured lessons
? impart knowledge and develop understanding through effective use of lesson time ? promote a love of learning and children’s intellectual curiosity ? set homework and plan other out-of-class activities to consolidate and extend the knowledge and understanding pupils have acquired ? reflect systematically on the effectiveness of lessons and approaches to teaching ? contribute to the design and provision of an engaging curriculum within the relevant subject area(s).
  1. Adapt teaching to respond to the strengths and needs of all pupils
? know when and how to differentiate appropriately, using approaches which enable pupils to be taught effectively ? have a secure understanding of how a range of factors can inhibit pupils’ ability to learn, and how best to overcome these ? demonstrate an awareness of the physical, social and intellectual development of children, and know how to adapt teaching to support pupils’ education at different stages of development ? have a clear understanding of the needs of all pupils, including those with special educational needs; those of high ability; those with English as an additional language; those with disabilities; and be able to use and evaluate distinctive teaching approaches to engage and support them.
  1. Make accurate and productive use of assessment
? know and understand how to assess the relevant subject and curriculum areas, including statutory assessment requirements ? make use of formative and summative assessment to secure pupils’ progress ? use relevant data to monitor progress, set targets, and plan subsequent lessons ? give pupils regular feedback, both orally and through accurate marking, and encourage pupils to respond to the feedback.
  1. Manage behaviour effectively to ensure a good and safe learning environment
? have clear rules and routines for behaviour in classrooms, and take responsibility for promoting good and courteous behaviour both in classrooms and around the school, in accordance with the school’s behaviour policy ? have high expectations of behaviour, and establish a framework for discipline with a range of strategies, using praise, sanctions and rewards consistently and fairly ? manage classes effectively, using approaches which are appropriate to pupils’ needs in order to involve and motivate them ? maintain good relationships with pupils, exercise appropriate authority, and act decisively when necessary.
  1. Fulfil wider professional responsibilities
? make a positive contribution to the wider life and ethos of the school; ? develop effective professional relationships with colleagues, knowing how and when to draw on advice and specialist support; ? deploy support staff effectively; ? take responsibility for improving teaching through appropriate professional development, responding to advice and feedback from colleagues; ? communicate effectively with parents with regard to pupils’ achievements and well-being.

Not surprisingly all of the above are expectations of every teacher.

If you are experienced enough to pass the pay-threshold (and of course you have to apply, submitting lots of evidence as to the quality of your teaching - it isn't automatic after a number of years), then the expectations are even higher.

They're just aren't enough hours in the day to do the job - let alone to do the job, keep on top of housework and have a decent amount of family time.

mineofuselessinformation · 23/10/2015 20:04

cariadlet, a case of 'good not being good enough', isn't it?

MrsUltracrepidarian · 23/10/2015 20:05

Like many others, I was warned not to train, but also like many others I just thought maybe they were jaded and did not have the passion I had... I still see post occasionally from people who want to train as an eg English teacher because they are passionate about literature and want to enthuse young minds like Miss Jean Brodie, or Robin Williams in that film and I don't post because it would seem cynical, and they would ignore it anyway - but IT IS NOT LIKE THAT NOW!!!! (sorry to shout).
My own DC were at a state primary, then and indie prep, and then and Indie secondary before I trained as a teacher. This was not for ideological reason, but logistical, school, day, location, my job etc.
Since then I have taught in many schools, inner city, leafy suburb, but I thank my lucky stars my DC are in the indie system. Knowing what I know now, about staff moral in the state sector I would ANYTHING to keep my DC out of it Sad

EvilTwins · 23/10/2015 20:08

In the interests of balance... I teach, qualified in 1997, and I still love it. The reasons I love it though are that I have been in the same school for 11 years and I do get a great deal of respect from kids and parents. Despite being an RI school, my dept results were in the 5th percentile nationally and therefore SLT pretty much leave me alone to get on with it. The kids are great, I get to choose what I do in my classroom and because I have no desire whatsoever to go up the SLT route, I have the time to work on things which I love and feel passionate about. I dare say it would be different if I was head of a core subject rather than the two I am head of, but there we go.

I a, not expected to write out lesson plans, to mark in a particular colour, to write down when I've given verbal feedback or to reflect on things unless I choose to. I do enter data 6x per year but we have a system which analyses it for us and we then use that analysis to better inform teaching. This is across the whole school - not just me.

I am not stressed on a day to day basis. The kids enthuse and energise me and I genuinely love going in every day.

kickassangel · 23/10/2015 20:09

I think it's the expectation that the teacher should be perfect all the time. So, one expectation is that teachers know all of their students by name, any SEN, their targets, current achievement, room for improvement, and other things like their favorite TV show, pets etc.

That's actually reasonable for someone in primary who sees the same kids every day. But a secondary teacher is still expected to know all that, even for students that they might see for 40 minutes every other week. Given that secondary teachers frequently work with 300+ kids each week, it's a ridiculous expectation. Teachers have been told they should know this stuff, so they should know this stuff all the time without exception.

It's the same for every area - whatever the expectation is, teachers are meant to meet it exactly and perfectly all the time no matter what. There's just no trust that a teacher can make a good judgement call. The rules are laid down and must be adhered to.

Jellymuffin · 23/10/2015 20:16

The long and short of it is it's the only career where you are allowed to do 1/3 of your job in actual work time (in front of the children delivering lessons) . The other 2/3 (planning and marking) must be done in your own time. It's madness and massively unsustainable.

holmessweetholmes · 23/10/2015 20:19

What everyone else said. I think that many more teachers would be able to stand the fucking mindless bureaucracy, scrutiny, micro-managing and number-crunching if we actually believed any of it were beneficial to the kids. But it isn't. It is time-wasting, distracting and demoralising. The government, and often senior leadership in schools, have forgotten what teaching actually is.

Oh and, for the record, I totally disagree with the comment upthread about one of the causes being the type of personalities teaching tends to attract. There are some perfectionists in teaching, just like there are everywhere. It maybe used to be the case that only the over-working, perfectionist teachers were the ones suffering stress and breakdowns. It certainly isn't the case any more.

I started teaching (secondary ) 20 years ago. It was all I ever wanted to do. I hate it now and haven't taught on a permanent contract in a school for several years. Dh is a deputy head and wants out too.

ArmchairTraveller · 23/10/2015 20:22

I enjoy teaching children.
I'm happily on supply after decades in the classroom, and I won't take anything longer than a fortnight precisely because I've been trapped in the mire, escaped and I'm not getting sucked back in.
It's no longer the job I loved and saw as a vocation for the first 15 years. It became Trial by Ordeal, with a new combination of ordeals every term, and hideous consequences.

StressheadMcGee · 23/10/2015 20:23

External observation last year of my dept (not OFSTED) tore us to shreds and criticised every we did. Cue 3 over stressed, confidence - destroyed teachers trying to replan everything with v v little support across every year group. Surprise surprise, with that kind of workload, results didn't improve. External observers are coming back - but no one seems to be assessing how effective their "support" was. This is one of quite a few things that have lead to the decision to hand in my notice. (massively outing myself to anyone who knows me!)

slightlyconfused85 · 23/10/2015 20:26

For me the worst thing is unrealistic targets. I have to get 80% of students in an exam class converted to target. I teach a creative subject; the targets are based on their prior achievements in English and Maths and then they push it up one to be aspirational. They take no account of the childs prior experience or indeed existing ability in the creative subject- this is an excuse.
Add to that constant observations, a government changing the syllabi and assessment strategies so regularly that no normal person can keep up, and behavioir that can be difficult to manage its no wonder people can't cope.

Pipbin · 23/10/2015 20:27

Is there anything that we as parents can do to help with this?
Say thank you and don't give your teacher shit when your DC loses their jumper.

ArmchairTraveller · 23/10/2015 20:28

'slightlyconfused85 '

Please don't tell me you were born in '85, I'd been teaching a couple of years by then...

WhatamessIgotinto · 23/10/2015 20:29

I'm a teaching assistant in an amazing middle school where I think the teaching staff are fantastic. You could offer me millions of ££ to be a teacher and I wouldn't take you up on it. No fucking way.

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