To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

Slight derail but I'm going to look to sign up with an agency that could provide work in the holidays like nursery nursing in a private nursery, just to bring in some extra cash. No idea who can do that but I remember as an nqt waiting to start I did some nursery nurse assignments so I think it could be done? I don't work full time supply as I still have preschoolers but still have childcare provision in the days I do work during the holidays if that makes sense?

I left a permanent HoD secondary post at Christmas 2014. I had had 18 years experience at the chalk face.

Throughout my early & mid career I had fire in my belly to do the best I could for every child - no matter how difficult the situation. I woke up looking forward to each day. The workload has always been considerable, however it seemed justifiable. Nothing worth achieving is ever easy after all.
In the last 3 months of my permanent post - I just. switched. off. I was quite alarmed by this. After all, i had intended to teach until retirement. BUT with the workload, micro-managing, scrutiny, the sudden unexpected inflation of target grades students needed to reach, the fact that we as a staff were constantly being told we had to do better, try harder, SLT's failure to listen to staff concerns (once, minutes of a HoD meeting were 'lost' - ha ha), having to deal with email requests from SLT in the evenings/weekends/school holidays (sometimes the tone of these emails made my stomach clench in fear/anger), hearing students openly speaking of self harming due to the strain they were under to reach their ridiculous targets - & the fear of disappointing their parents if those targets weren't achieved, seeing capable and respected long standing colleagues reduced to tears due to the intense pressure, oh, I could go on and on and on. I started having dreams about weird things - like being buried alive. A warning I couldn't ignore. Anyway, I simply stopped believing in the system as I didn't feel it was in the interests of the students any longer. Therefore, I couldn't generate any enthusiasm (although I'd put on an act for the students until I left). In the end, I felt the fairest thing for the students, and for me, was to resign.

After my permanent post I went on supply for 6 months. I only took on daily assignments. It meant no marking or planning. I felt guilty walking out each day, at 3.15/3.30pm, leaving the staff to go to their meetings and to do their hours and hours of marking/planning, etc.

It took me about 3 months to stop feeling exhausted. I hadn't even realised how tired I'd been. Once that fog lifted I was able to start putting out feelers for a new career, a career I'm currently working in.

I LOVE my new job, but I deeply miss teaching. Sadly, I think it would cost me my health to return and could possibly cost me my family.

Not being funny lowdoor but the majority of SLT at the last two schools I worked at were out the door by 5 and had lives outside of school. They may have been "responsible" for a large number of things but they delegated a lot. I'm just below their level, so I do realise how much is done, but I also realise how much can get done during school time when you are teaching 9 lessons out of 30 (which is what my SLT do).

Lulu's list seems to encompass almost everything. For example the person in charge of safe guarding in any school I've worked in does little else. Why? Cause its a job that involves so much work it would be impossible.

I never suggest SLT don't work hard, I do suggest they create work to tick a box. Some schools however wonder why people burn out quickly, I'd suggest if Lulu's DH is doing all that then he will, and soon and that.

xOdessax, can I ask what career you have changed to and how you got there?

I turn down any offers that are longer that a fortnight
Same here.

Interesting article in The Times today about barristers and how everyone thinks it's a glamorous easy and well-paid job, but old-timers are complaining like on here that 'fings ain't wot they used to be' and disillusioned new recruits are leaving in droves... One said he could earn more a croupier. So that's many years study down the drain.

I've heard it said that one reason why teachers/ nurses are exploited, continue to care for children/ patients, put up with so much shit is because they're largely female. (Clearly male teachers care as much, but are in the minority). Discuss.

Hester completely agree.
Look at tube train drivers - mostly men.
Any attempt to increase their workload - they won't accept it. Employers back down.
Teachers have just accepted more and more, and prefer to be martyrs, like the earlier poster who thought it was noble to be dictating cover work while vomiting into a bucket because she has ben brainwashed into thinking that any refusal will 'harm her pupils?' .
No employer will respect a workforce that just rolls over - conditions will just worsen.

Looks like a normal list for a pastoral deputy. They aren't taking the piss, that's life at that level.

Things that are "missing" that other SLT will be doing include:

The timetable (starts about February)

Curriculum planning (with every exam changing this is massive)

Assessment and data (with no levels and unclear 9-1 this is also massive)

Line management of heads of year

Student Council and Student Voice

Assemblies (running / scheduling)

Calendar (planning)

Trips (ensuring all the gazillion forms have been completed).

Duties (scheduling them and checking they are done)

Running "collapsed" days so that trips can go ahead.

CPD (this might be covered under staff training, but also involves approving training courses - budgets are so low and exam board training is high on the agenda).

Marketing

Newsletters / whole school letters

The website

Y6 Open evening and/or open mornings

Year 6 transition

Sixth form open evenings / interviews

Sixth form transition

The PTA

Governors' meetings

Overseeing all appraisal and moderation.

Judging competitions

School photographer - organising which year groups and which lesson they come out of.

Overseeing display for learning

Organising how the head girl/boy will be selected

Parents evenings - scheduling / letters home / setting up

Also the "bursar" jobs - he or she is normally on the SLT - site team, cleaners, the whole budget, health and safety, fire regulations, the census, external contractors, etc.

On top of that also to include:
Dealing with the latest fight or issue (this can take days)
Exclusions and reintegration meetings
Parents
Local complaints
Regular work experience requests from people considering teaching.
Governor visits
Ofsted's latest guidance

There are more women in teaching than men, true. I don't think they are behaving like martyrs.

It takes a lot to walk out of a job and start again at zero when you have a mortgage and responsibilities.

Actually I didn't dictate the cover work because I thought refusal would harm my pupils. I dictated the cover work because I knew if I didn't then the task of setting work would be dumped at the door of one of my colleagues who is near-breaking point, and I would be hauled up for in on my return.

ultra I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can make out, you've clocked up a little over a year, maybe two, supply teaching after training.
Forgive me if I don't pay a great deal of attention to your 'insights' into the failings of your colleagues in the profession, who've been doing it a far sight longer and have loyalties and responsibilities you clearly have no idea of.

HesterThrale

"Discuss."

Why? do you need opinions for your thesis?

Female teachers are in the majority, but in secondary, 65% of heads are male.

I think that an increase in the proportion of women in a workforce often, sadly, leads to a reduction in the public respect for the profession and an attempt to reduce the wages in comparison to others. That process has now started for medicine as the majority of new medical students are female. It's been the trajectory for teaching for years now. I think it partly comes from the assumption that women are only working for pin money.

Also Iguana

Teaching and Learning- huge job
Data collection and intervention across the school
NQTs
ITTs
Recruitment
Marking and feedback
HR
Health and Safety
Line management of depts
Monitoring and evaluation
OFSTED readiness
Leadership development
Recruitment
Publicity and marketing
Buildings
Any specialist on site provision - eg ASD provision based in a mainstream school
Teaching school work - if the school is a teaching school- my friend works in one and they have staff employed full-time and the level of accountability to the DFE is mad
DH's school is having new build on their site at the moment and the other Deputy has had that added to his job.
Literacy, Numeracy across the school line management

I am amazed to hear someone say Safeguarding is a full-time job. I have never worked in a school where it has been a full-time job. It has always been an SLT responsibility amongst many others, usually attached to the Pastoral Deputy.

Yes DH works with other staff who help make these things happen. Ultimately he is responsible. I am not saying he works harder than other staff, just that being on an SLT is no picnic - as some people seem to be suggesting. Teaching is tough at any level. Young teachers are very poorly paid.

I am on maternity leave from an SLT post at the moment. I am dreading going back because I am scared of what it will do to our life together and DS. DH has only been a Deputy Head since September. He is absolutely wiped out.

No Boneyback! (I wouldn't put opinions in a thesis anyway!) I'm just unsure what I think about this, and curious to hear others' opinions. Sorry if it sounded abrupt!
This thread has been largely mutually supportive and good- natured. It's good to talk about these issues and find what's going on in other people's minds. And to know 'we're not alone'.
Thanks to all for their honesty.

We have a friend who is a Deputy Head in a Requires Improvement school. His Head arranges meetings on Sundays once every month which he is expected to attend - the school is 20 miles away and he has a 2 year old. The meetings last half a day. If he says no the Head is difficult. He goes because the other Deputy goes- no children and a 5 minute drive. But for our friend it takes his Sunday then he goes home and has his normal Sunday work to do. He is trying to get another job.

SLT contracts are different to teachers - there is no limit to days/hours.

There is a huge issue in teaching with things that are done for 'goodwill' and 'as a nice idea' becoming the expected norm.

When I first started at our school in 2004 the school was closed during holidays, with just office staff present. About 6 years ago one of the departments started coming in at Easter so students could 'finish off' coursework (DT). Then some departments started running Easter revision sessions. Naturally, no wanting to be outdone, other departments started running their own. Now the school expects each department to put together a timetable of scheduled Easter revision lessons. It's, more or less, an expectation.

My kids are 5 and 9. DH works in London and can do no childcare during the week. I have no family nearby. The only reason I stay in a more or less full time job 18 years after graduating (in chemical engineering) for 23k a year is because of the school holidays. I am not paying £56 a day for my children to go to a holiday club so I can go and do unpaid teaching work at school during the holidays.

I think by Safeguarding she means safeguarding officer and so therefore responsible for all the referrals (neglect/ abuse etc)

Yes, neither my school nor DHs pay for holiday classes but most departments run them . Only Summer Schools paid for by funding from DFE are paid.
Last Easter I remember DH - at his previous school then- saying there were 18 half day sessions run by staff. None were paid. Cost would probably have been about £75 per member of staff per session- some were run by 2 staff - plus oncosts. Probably £2500 in total. Time nd prep time given free by teachers.

That is what DH does, although some of the referrals to Soc Services are completed by Heads of Year and he sign them off. But he is the Designated Teacher - all issues come to him, he liaises with Soc services, makes the decisions, deals with any allegations against staff, and does the whole staff training, policies, reports to govs, builds it into PSHCE so children know about it and how to protect themselves. Bursar does the recruitment side andSingle Central Register. Heads of Year do the daily support with children, liaison with parents.

Just part of his job, certainly not seen as a full-time responsibility.

Yes Hester It's good to see that many of us have so much in common. I wish I had had MN when I was going through the worst time of my life. It was almost worse than losing my brother or having breast cancer. It's because of the 'fifedom' thing as described upthread. Each school lives in its own bubble and mad, damaging practices continue unchecked.

The holidays are the biggest snagging point, as any argument about workload or accountability or indeed stress, is always counter-acted, by Joe public at least, with 'look at all the time off you get'.
Whereas any teacher will know that you are so burned-out, it's impossible to enjoy much of the holidays. This half-term, I have: dentist, optician, car MOT, boiler service, shopping for all of Christmas presents, hair cut, tackling the ironing mountain. You can't just slot these things into term time weeks, there is just no time.

Incidentally, my DD's holiday club is £10 a day (9 til 3) and £40 for the week. If I were to get a job outside teaching and lose the holidays, we wouldn't suffer too much.
Teaching is not family-friendly. Never has been.

Our school also does the Easter revision classes, plus February half term. I have always said no because we are always away visiting family, but pressure is put on none the less.
We also now have revision classes or booster sessions on most inset days except the September one - so yet more planning and less CPD as a result because we have students all day and cannot attend whatever training has been organised. External CPD has been banned as there is no cash to pay for it or the cover. Funnily enough, there is cash for smt to have a lovely buffet tea every week for their meeting. A courtesy which is naturally not extended to other staff when they have to stay late- we are provided with one dry ham or cheese roll each before parents evening. And if you're vegan, gluten free or anything else, tough luck.