To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

My DH works in the Independent sector and DS goes to a prep. In my opinion both of their environments are significantly better for them.

There are fewer hurdles in the independent sector. And more trust.

I've not RTFT but in answer to the OP - one reason might be pay increases being withheld because of 'underperformance' of ONE of your teaching groups. At my place the 1% inflationary increase has been withheld (as well as the incremental increases - surely that's being penalised twice?!).

I love my job and work hard but it's still galling!

I believe the problem in education is extensive enough that most parents have experienced a good number teachers leaving or off sick on a regular basis. In my DCs school The Y5 teacher walked out one day never came back and the amazing Y6 teacher left half way through the year for 'health reasons'. I have no doubt that this situation is happening all around the country and parents need to start making noises that this situation very very wrong.

MrsPeel Do you work in an academy?

Teacher of 20 years..secondary age; love the job, appreciate the holidays and think the pay is reasonable. However.. the last couple of years the profession has become a joke.

I have worked in a number of schools; stepped back from management to start a family to 'just teach' these days. The problem in my opinion started with the academisation of schools and the Chain/Trust culture. Great and honourable in principal.

In reality; this is what has happened - Leadership, now in charge of their own budgets have protected themselves and their salaries. Managers who seemingly forget what it's like to teach full time; a really stressful 5 lessons a week let's say. The same managers who 'learning walk' every week. 'It was great, BUT YOU COULD IMPROVE by X, Y or Z'.

Your best is never good enough. Constant justification of your own existence. Heaven forbid we do anything to the detriment of a child's self esteem (of course) but to hell with the staff.
Experienced teachers are not being appointed by cash strapped schools - why would they when they can appoint a young teacher with no family commitments for say 15 grand less a year- that's a support role salary.

Speaking of which; last week I happened upon a newly qualified teacher at my school - the sort of person you just know is working all hours; doing their best, kids have responded really well to him etc; on the verge of tears unable to express to me his disappointment at a 'poor observation'. Eight weeks in and on the edge.

Poor kid... In an ideal world they would have robots teach your children. No individuality or personality. Just so long as the kids know their targets and what progress they made that lesson.

I'm generalising of course - I have and continue to work with great leaders. But the profession is in meltdown. How this is not headline news I've no idea. Oh yes - we are the lowest of the low;)

I'm not a quitter:) and love being in the classroom with the kids but those are the only reasons I stay.

For those who say it used to be better in 1981 - yes, most workplaces were. I worked in industry and back in the late eighties we had company cars, generous expenses, final salary pensions, no appraisals, incremental pay rises - all the things that teachers had.
Now, completely different target driven, no cars, no final salary pension, minimal if any expenses, Health & Safety and compliance red tape requiring endless admin.
So it is not just teaching has changed - every workplace has. (And no-one out side the public sector gets a final salary pension now.)

Yes, but before 1988 there wasn't a National Curriculum. That was, it seems, the beginning of governmental fardling in education. That is a specific change, rather than a wider societal one. All those other changes you listed happened everywhere, every sector. Not that teachers ever had expenses, cars etc.

And it is highly unlikely that any teacher would disagree with you. By the way, teachers don't get final salary pensions now, either!

It would be a pity to derail the thread now, on page 23. The usual bun fight has been well avoided and individual reasons well articulated and discussed.

Well let's all have a race to the bottom then shall we MrsSalvo?

Exactly what those at the top want! Abd if you read above pp, remember teaching will never have the financial rewards throughout the career that you do get in private sector.

The difference is MrsSalvo what is happening in education impacts our children and their future. This is not simply teachers having a moan about the good old days, or pay or pensions. This is about teachers leaving in droves and in despair that the current system is broken and failing our children.

If the same thing was happening in the private sector, a company would be in dire straits, serious questions would be asked and heads would roll at the top.

Gosh I never knew teachers had company cars in the 80s.

As with the NHS, Social Services etc., it's not just a question of how many £ are thrown at it. It's about the desperate need for consistent practice across the sector in terms of :

fair sharing of workload (as alluded to by twinkle* above) : why should the NQT in her school be subjected to an unequal burden while his judges/jurors are dossing around collecting up to 3x his salary for contributing to the toxic situation we have

• clear & transparent guidelines for and auditing of how funding for all vulnerable students is actually spent, not fabricated reports by 'SENCOs' who send minimum-wage TAs etc to the firing line while disappearing from the premises to 'discuss a primary transition student offsite' i.e. skive off for the afternoon & even claim mileage for doing so

• professional management who are properly trained in HRM, including motivation, communication & functional areas of an organisation

Most of the SLT I worked for in 27 years couldn't have run a pi** up in a brewery, were functionally & financially illiterate & wouldn't have lasted a month in the jobs of the (trusting & hard-working) parents who were relying on them to take responsibility for their children's education.

That's a shame, Amanda but don't tar every single SLT across the country with the same brush. Not all are dossing around. Certainly not the ones I know. There is certainly not an unequal burden. There are (unfortunately) other things to manage in a school apart from the classes in front of the teacher.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but isn't part of the problem down to the many parents who really aren't all that bothered, providing their "childminding service" remains intact?

Luckily - as we've seen on here - many others do care about these very real issues, but it's hard not to notice that every time there's a school closure, the first concern expressed is often "what am I supposed to do about childcare?" That's not to say this isn't important too of course; it just worries me that it sometimes seems the main concern, rather than one among many

I do primary supply after leaving teaching due to all reasons listed above. I love doing supply, but as others have said, marking expectations are ridiculous - I have ended up with 120 books to mark in one day before, after teaching literacy, numeracy, science and history!

puzzled that is a part of it probably. Schools are seen as places which the public feel are ripe to belittle, take the mickey out of, disrespect etc. Yes it's a nice freebie child care service as well. Just take a look at the threads on here all talking about complaining to the governors and ofsted every time a teacher breathes wrong.

Sorry - lulujakey- yes it is, so they can do whatever the hell they like. I'd love to know how much the head's pay got increased by!

I think the crux of the issue is the blame culture that has arisen as a distortion of 'accountability'.

Politicians who know relatively little about child development or learning set fairly arbitrary 'floor targets' for schools. These must increase over time or said politicians will be blamed for British education failing and will lose their posts one way or another.

Head teachers have to then implement measures that will ensure their school meets these targets. If they do not they will be blamed, their school will drop down the ofsted rankings and be made an Academy- at which point the Head will likely lose their career.

Teachers come under pressure to ensure they execute whatever strategy the Head has deemed necessary to meet the targets the politicians set and they are blamed if they don't. They are put on capability and fired (if they don't leave due to ill health first).

Pupils are expected to jump through any hoop set by the Teacher to meet the targets the Head has passed down from the politicians. They and their parents are blamed if they can't. It doesn't matter if they have SEN or their mum just died or they live with abuse. They will live out their Primary school days sat in intervention groups rather than accessing a broad and balanced curriculum.

It's just a hideous cycle of shit in which nobody wins. Amanda it is not helpful to blame it all on SLT. They are under huge pressure and are part of the cycle of shit just as much as the rest of us (I have been on SLT and left through stress). To think they are not is naïve.

Just take a look at the threads on here all talking about complaining to the governors and ofsted every time a teacher breathes wrong

Exactly

Nobody suggests that real problems should be brushed aside, but too often it seems to be all about individual interests rather than school and home genuinely pulling together - and it's this which can cause the kind of problems being discussed to be ignored

Interesting Amanda that you say SLT can be 'financially illiterate'. I remember 30 years ago when Heads didn't have to manage a budget at all. I suppose the Local Authority did it for you. There wasn't even a set amount for each school. If a school happened to have lots of experienced teachers, then I guess they were 'lucky'. Then something called LMS came in (Local Management of Schools). Suddenly the school had a finite amount to spend and having lots of experienced (more costly) staff was difficult. Also Heads, who had no experience of financial management, were thrust into it. It was extra work, and they became directly responsible for making any necessary cuts. I felt previously that they'd become Heads because they were judged good educationists. Moving towards the American model where Principals may not come via a teaching route at all? I'm not sure but it seems a bit like that now. Are some Heads in Academies/ Free Schools without much actual teaching experience?

Just take a look at the threads on here all talking about complaining to the governors and ofsted every time a teacher breathes wrong

I second that. Indeed, a recent thread advised a poster to remind her child's school of its obligations under The Geneva Convention. It wasn't a joke.

I have had it cushy - six years teaching internationally with the freedom to design imaginative schemes of work, far less paperwork and smaller class sizes. I've just returned to a UK private school working part-time after a maternity break and I had totally underestimated how incompatible teaching as a profession is with family life. I'm waking up at 5.30, getting myself ready, dressing DDs, taking them to a childminder, 40-minute drive to school, teach with one free if lucky, drive back, collect children, feed, bath, bed, tidy house - start marking and planning at 8, stagger to bed at 11. There is no 'me' time at all, and my largest class has 15 in it. How the hell you do this in the state sector, I don't know. And it's a creative profession - you can't plan an inspiring lesson when you're knackered. Screw it - I have an appointment with a careers adviser next week.

I agree there are parents who have a moan about teachers backed up by much of the press. Parents are under so much pressure life is such a juggling act and the slightest thing, like school closure just tips the balance and tempers flare.

Please don't think that all parents are against teachers. We need more information about what is happening in schools, we need the truth and we need to hear more stories like this so we can get behind the issue.

Lowdowninthewall - great post. My thoughts entirely.

Half my ridiculous workload is 'evidencing' and justifying my every thought - detailed planning for every session, with my key questions high-lighted in blue, opportunities for speaking and listening highlighted in yellow, pivotal questions for pivotal children highlighted in green, which then has to have detailed annotations added on top saying what we did/didn't actually do; marking which includes written notes of verbal feedback, that must be written down otherwise I have no evidence that I said it; daily printing, trimming and sticking in of photographs of children doing practical activities, with post it notes of what they said, because if I didn't do it there would be no actual evidence of what happened... It goes on and on.

Nobody trusts my professional judgements or gives me enough respect to believe that after 20 odd years of successful teaching I know what I'm doing.

lowdown spot on.

catford and puzzled depressing isn't it?

shebird there are some amazing parents out there, who work so hard with teachers. I guess most of the time, as they are working in tandem with the school, they don't feel the need to come on here and slag off teachers. I do understand about the frustration of days schools close.