To wonder why so many teachers want to quit

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Inspired by other threads but I didn't want to derail.

What is going on in education that is making teaching so stressful?

I work in the City and you don't see too many people quitting with stress even though the work can be stressful. Certainly, not the numbers you see in teaching.

The problem is not having enough time to do it all in. If we look to Shanghai where they get awesome PISA results, they have something like 40% of their school hours are spent stood in front of a class, the rest is spent planning and assessing. In the UK 90% of a full time teacher's school hours are spent teaching. The other stuff gets pushed into evenings and weekends.

Totally agree with this. We should have more time in school without the children so we can have time to do plan etc. That would make a world of difference to all teachers.

Gps will tell you that teachers are the most stressed profession. There must be a reason for this
I know so many talented teachers who are leaving the profession.
My ds's year 6 teacher has just left the profession due to stress. She was an absolutely wonderful teacher.

I agree noblegiraffe. I don't think any of the things teachers are being asked to do are not worthwhile. In fact, I think they are. The main problem is that they are being required on top of everything else. Not only that, class sizes are getting bigger (+10% in our school). In daddiotn, budget constrains mean that teaching loads are now higher, and 6th form now have timetabled lessons that have no teacher. Guess who has to plan and mark the work for those lessons? This is supposed to 'help with independent study skills' but in reality it is just about cutting the number of teachers. This is on top of curriculum and assessment changes in every year group.

GnomeDePlume, teachers need to mark & assess to know a) what each child has/has not understood and b) what they need to learn in the next lessons.
Planning/marking are absolutely inseparable, not distinct professional skills.

The Unions have presented clear & consistent messages for years about what needs to change to halt the present recruitment & retention crisis. They have been ignored.

Hand wringing happens because the teacher shortage is impacting directly on children. In a school I worked in, a boy in my yr 9 tutor group told me I was the only 'proper' teacher he had left. He meant that every single other subject on his timetable was taught by a supply teacher.

Greengarden is right. In Shanhai - continually held up by this government as fantastic teaching methods and outcomes- teachers of maths and English teach 40% of the time and either see individual students, mark or prepare in theother 60%. They do not have tutor groups or do duties.

Our teachers teach 90% of the time and do everything else on the huge lists above.

We had Year 7 parents' evening not long ago. If the teachers hadn't been marking my DD's work, how on earth would they have been able to give us an accurate assessment of her level and abilities?

In Scotland supply teachers are also paid less than teachers who are permanent. Whoever thought this was a good idea? What has happened is that when a teacher is off, there is no-one to cover that class. No-one wants to do the job because they don't earn what they should so there is a crisis in supply teachers here. This means classes are disrupted and if there are children with challenging behaviour, it gets worse by the stream of teacher's coming and going. Its honestly a nightmare.

Oh and a knock on effect is that sometimes in schools that are less organised, because of staff absences there is a loss of the non-class contact time [planning time] as the school struggles to teach the classes without teachers or supply teachers! This causes even more stress to other teachers who find they lose their time for plan and prep.

We have appointed three NQT physics teachers in the last 3 years. At the end of the year everyone of them has left the profession. One had previously been a lawyer, one had been an engineer and one had done physics at uni. The lawyer has gone to Spain to be an estate agent, the engineer has gone back to that and the graduate has gone back to uni.

We have had 4 NQT maths teachers in the same time and they have all left the profession after their first year. One has gone to be a learning mentor, one had a breakdown and has not worked since, one went off to sell mortgages and one has set up a painting and decorating business and earns more than he did teaching, works when it suits him, and goes home at 4pm with nothing to do.

Each of them will have had a £25,000 lump sum tax free from the government to train plus their training paid for . £35,000 x 7 = £245,000

• 7x21,000 NQT salary = £147,000 + £245,000 = £392,000 and not one of them teaching.

They can not believe how hard they have to work. There are just easier ways for them to earn that money.

There does seem to be a real issue in England, as compared with France where our DC are being/have been schooled, about expecting teachers as opposed to pupils to put in the work. French DC work harder, IMO, than English DC. French teachers work less hard than English teachers.

Ultimately we surely want DC to do the work.

To put it in a nutshell I have been working in the same school for the past 17 years, in that time we have had 9 different head teachers. For the past 5 years I have had Hods who are not specialists in my subject. No wonder we are leaving. I can't because I am a SP and have 3 DCs to support. I think both my relationships with DCs Fathers broke down due to the pressure of the job. I have been a teacher for almost 30 years now. I cannot understand why we have to prove ourselves all the time. On a positive note, a very nice lady recognised me in Tesco and I did realise who she was eventually. She was the Mum of a very talented student I taught about 8 years ago. He is just finishing his Masters in an allied subject to mine. This is what is wrong with how schools are judged. It is not about exam results it is about if students become productive members of society. It could be a Masters degree or being a brick layer. Sorry that wasn't a nutshell- it was a rant [embarrased]

In my 15 years of attending parents evenings I have yet to attend one which was useful and increased my understanding of how well my children were doing at school. IME they are box-ticking exercises. The school gets to tick the box which says that parents are kept informed. We get to tick the box which says we are concerned.

If teaching is in crisis then the first thing should be to strip out those things which dont add value. From a parents perspective my list would include:

• parents' evening
• annual school reports
• non-course relevant trips

It all boils down to a very serious problem- this sort of thread would have been unthinkable when I started teaching.

Gnome that is because only the interested parents come to teacher- parent meetings. As teachers we would like to see the parents of the students who are less engaged. In saying that I once had a year 11 girl turn up on her own and she said 'Well Miss I want to know how I am doing, even if my Mum can't be bothered' and I did speak a couple of weeks ago to parents of students who were not doing very well and stuff has improved. I generally e-mail or phone if there are problems, but actually sitting face to face and meeting the parent, I think is very informative.

non-course relevant trips are really important - some DC don't get opportunities to do stuff if they can't do it at school. We're taking the whole of year 7 to the local panto. Some of them won't have been to the theatre before and wouldn't be going this year if we weren't taking them. These things matter.

I find parents' evenings very useful indeed. You learn all sorts of things about the teachers themselves - I am particularly interested in knowing whether a teacher has "got" my DC or not because that tells me, by and large, whether I can leave my DC to get on with that subject without parental monitoring/intervention. And there are some specific things I want some teachers to know about my DD that are easy to share at parents' evenings.

I don't understand why parents are not taking to the streets in droves to protest about what is happening to education in England. Are people really so thick that they believe the 'lazy teachers with their long holidays' shite?

Oh yes, there's the problem. They are that thick and the media colludes with the Govt on this.

And OP, while I respect the fact that you seem to have engaged with this thread, I'm a bit that you really had to ask this question. The comparison with banking is frankly offensive. Teachers are paid an absolute pittance in comparison with bankers. Most of the bankers I knew saw it as a short - medium term job where you made as much money as possible before you burned out. Teachers don't have the luxury of paying off the mortgage before they go. They train in good faith and end up doing five jobs in one (teacher, mentor, social worker, entertainer and surrogate parent), while being held in contempt by everyone - their pupils, the parents, the media, their own SLT, the Govt and often their peers - everyone just loves to roll out the old 'Those who can, do - chortle, chortle!'

I've often thought parents evenings could do with going. I hate them, as a parent as well as a teacher.

Once they were needed but nowadays with mobiles and emails and the like - I just don't think they are necessary.

I started Schools Direct primary six weeks ago and really regret it! I am bogged down in work already and seeing how much pressure teachers are under I don't think I m cut out for it. I have hardly seen my family and am constantly ill and stressed. Seriously considering not going back after half term.

I think parents night should be available for parents that wish to go. It is a waste of time for everyone if there are no issues.

I disagree EvilTwins, if teaching in general or a school in particular is in crisis then things like non-course relevant trips become 'nice to haves'.

elephantoverthehill it is the generic annual parents evening and reporting which adds nothing. If there is a problem then deal with it at the time. Waiting until the end of the following term to tell me that my DS isnt handing in homework isnt dealing with the problem.

What is schools direct primary?

It is a teacher training course based in school 4 days a week and uni one day.

Gnome I said I e-mail or phone with a problem. I do not wait to the end of the year. But I do find it useful to meet the parent. If it is a really big problem I will invite the parent to a meeting.