to think my dogs are Ok off leads around horses!

[Teapot101]

We walk a bridlepath around our home. We pass many horses with no problems whatsoever. 3 riders are continually rude to us and I've had enough. "can you put your dog on a lead" and when I did passed me saying "This is a bridle path you know" I replied that it was also a footpath! She was clearly grumpy that I was walking up the footpath with my dogs they could not have a good canter. They could have waited until I was at the end. My dogs do not approach horses and are very used to walking pass them. they do not bark or skitter or anything. We pass several other locals on horses and have no probs whatsoever. It's the arrogant attitude that is bothering me. They never say good morning, are v cold and standoffish, so do not feel predisposed to dive into the nettles to benefit their ride!!

"I don't know much about horses but I cannot believe that a horse that throws someone off or kicks is under control"

It is true that riders have a duty of care and need to make sure that they have a reasonable amount of control over their horse. You need to make sure you're not "over horsed" i.e. that you're experienced enough to cope with the horse you're riding under reasonable circumstances.

BUT, think about how you, as a human, would react if when walking along a pheasant suddenly flew up under your feet with a whirring noise. Chances are you'd jump. Horses are the same, with the added problems that they're horses and therefore don't reason "oh it's only a pheasant"; they're flight animals so the instinct to leap and run away is heightened; they're big so a relatively small movement can mean them kind of teleporting five foot to the left.

I have made sure my horse is well schooled but if someone's dog runs at him barking, he might kick out and I might not be able to stop him.

It's give and take. E.g. today I was out riding with a friend. We avoid main roads as much as possible but cannot avoid them completely so today part of our ride was on a B road. We kept my friend's less-experienced and slightly less predictable horse on the left, keeping my horse to the right. He knows his job and will block her in if she's skittish. A large group of cyclists came past, called out a warning to us, most of them said hello, they slowed down, gave us lots of room and we were both concentrating on our horses and kept them under control. A little consideration from us as riders and from the cyclists kept everybody safe.

YABVU. Put your dog on a lead when you see horses and stop moaning.

To add to gabilan (agree btw) of the horse jumps etc that's fine. If it goes careering off, or in response to the rider trembling at a spaniel half a mile away, it's not fully under control. Both riders and dog walkers have a duty to keep in control. The fact a horse is bigger makes it all the more important in my opinion.
Forget who it was that asked, but no if your dog is fully under control and somebody's horse is scared and runs off, it's entirely the riders fault not yours.

The horse rider sounded a bit rude but I think you should put your dogs on a lead or at least call them to heel.

I'm a very considerate car driver if I see horses and I'm always thanked with a smile and wave. It's the same when I'm biking or walking with my friends and their dogs - everyone's always seems cheery and polite. Maybe I just don't notice the stroppy people.

Gabilan I completely agree with having your dog under complete control (though this doesn't always have to be on a lead imo) and running under a horse's feet is wholly unacceptable.
However some previous posters seemed to say that their horse could be spooked by a dog, so dogs should be on a lead to avoid being kicked etc. I really don't agree with the idea that a rider should be allowed to tell a walker to put their dog on a lead because their horse doesn't link dogs.

What is wrong with dismounting and leading your horse to the side while the walker passes?
Also, if some horses really are as unpredictable as that then surely they also pose a risk to children and people on bikes?

"I really don't agree with the idea that a rider should be allowed to tell a walker to put their dog on a lead because their horse doesn't link dogs."

Why not?

"What is wrong with dismounting and leading your horse to the side while the walker passes"

What is wrong with putting your dog on a lead instead? Wouldn't it be easier to do so?

I know nothing about horses so I don't know whether a horse is easier to control with the rider sitting on it or leading it on foot.

Surely there is a reason they asked you to put your dog on a lead. Even the most placid horses spook easily. If they did, either at the dog or like other poster at a crisp packet, surely you would want your dog out of harms way close to you and on lead. Or at least grab their collar. I say that after working at a stud as a teenager where a mare who had been placidly grazing suddenly decided to spark a fight with the horse I was stroking, with me inbetween them. Terrifying.

anonacfr My last dog was put down in 1981. People didn't seem to hate them or their owners so much then. I remember dogs taking themselves for walks in the 70s and it not being a problem. Dog shit wasn't a problem either because the people who let their dogs walk themselves fed them stuff that would produce desiccated white dog shit.

My dog was nearly always kept on a lead because she was a sight hound and would have taken off after any small animal and killed it or got herself killed under the wheels of a car in the attempt.

But people admired her because she was beautiful and friendly. She wouldn't have reacted to something as big as a horse. I know plenty of riders who go out with a dog or two running free. Sometimes the dogs stay for the whole ride or sometimes they take themselves back.

Sometimes the female riders have been grateful for the protection. Something about lone female riders attracts perverts.

I now have a cat. They are hated on MN too. But I can confirm that my cat doesn't shit in anyone else's garden. He has a shit pit indoors that I empty daily. He used to be exclusively indoor but is now allowed out under my supervision.

This is also wrong.

"I really don't agree with the idea that a rider should be allowed to tell a walker to put their dog on a lead because their horse doesn't link dogs."

I think on a bridle path it's perfectly OK to ask an owner to put their dog on the lead or at least get hold of it. Neither horse, nor rider, nor dog owner can predict what the dog might do. The horse might have been attacked by dogs in the past. Even with retraining, it's very difficult to get a horse that's been attacked to accept dogs again. Riders on the whole are quite aware and try to avoid potential hazards when they can.

"What is wrong with dismounting and leading your horse to the side while the walker passes?"

See PP. You have far, far less control holding a horse than riding it.

"Also, if some horses really are as unpredictable as that then surely they also pose a risk to children and people on bikes?"

As I said above, it's give and take. I'll control my horse, so long as you don't let your child charge at him, flapping their arms around (although horses generally are surprisingly gentle, kind and tolerant of children). As for people on bikes, well as a cyclist and horse rider, I talk to horse and rider, check the horse is OK and give the animal a wide berth. I do not find this a problem.

Bun the point is the horse is the thing that is going to do the damage. They should be making concessions. I don't care how easy it is for you, we all share paths and if my dog is walking to heel and you still don't like it, then you sort it out instead of me.

Even the most placid horse can be startled and what putting your dog on lead does is reduce the risk
All those who think horses should never react- they aren't robots !

I come across horses when out cycling and I would never approach a horse without asking if it was ok to pass ie never just pass silently.

I have got off my bike and stood still at a riders request once so her young horse could have a sniff of me and see that I was ok

carrie your post of 1736 is entirely reasonable, your only duty is keeping your dog under control, not pandering to riders not fit to be in public

It wouldn't occur to me not to put dog on a lead when passing a horse.

Really? I know riders who go out with dogs. Sometimes the dogs stay for the whole ride, sometimes they get bored and take themselves back.

And then there are people who hunt which despite the ban, still happens.

Horses and dogs are compatible with a bit of sense and understanding on both sides.

I also agree with the OP when she noted that the rider may have been pissed off that she couldn't canter because OP was on her bridle path, with or without a dog.

As a rider in suburban areas it irked me if I couldn't get a good run. But other people were entitled to share the bridleway. Likewise I wouldn't rush past an oncoming rider. It's rude and dangerous.

Therefore I'd go very early mornings and particularly enjoyed rainy days and winters.

"I really don't agree with the idea that a rider should be allowed to tell a walker to put their dog on a lead because their horse doesn't link dogs."

A scared horse could cause a lot of damage, not just to itself and the rider but also to me and my dog. It's in my interest to ensure the horse does not get distressed due to my dog.

whats wrong with getting off your horse and walking it

For the amount of dog walkers i see on a hack then i would spend more time off my horse than on it.

Why can't you just put your dog on a lead. The damage a spooked horse would do to a dog would be fatal.

And what if your dog decided one day it didn't like the massive animal walking past it and nipped the horses ankles. They are both animals and therefore can be unpredictable.

And i don't agree that your dog should be allowed to roam off the lead and that i as a rider, would have to take your word that your dog is safe.

"if my dog is walking to heel and you still don't like it, then you sort it out instead of me."

I'd be fine with that and would probably just say "good morning". I know my horse. He's kind, reliable, good with dogs and listens to me most of the time. If I were on a horse I knew less well I might just say "the horse is young, he might spook". That gives you some knowledge of the animal and then what you decide to do is up to you.

My catch-all if dogs look out of control is just to say to the owner "my horse is well behaved but if your dog gets too close I can't guarantee it won't get trodden on".

"Bun the point is the horse is the thing that is going to do the damage. They should be making concessions. I don't care how easy it is for you, we all share paths and if my dog is walking to heel and you still don't like it, then you sort it out instead of me."

I was playing devil's advocate there. I don't own a horse. I don't even ride as I am scared of horses. Common sense dictates that putting the dog on a lead is easier than having a rider dismount, lead a horse and remount again.

It has been pointed out a couple of times that a horse is easier to control if the rider is on it rather than next to it.

"Really? I know riders who go out with dogs. Sometimes the dogs stay for the whole ride, sometimes they get bored and take themselves back. And then there are people who hunt which despite the ban, still happens."

Surely these horses and dogs know each other. They aren't random dogs that the horse has never seen before.

"The damage a spooked horse would do to a dog would be fatal."

Exactly! I'm not relying on a total stranger to ensure the safety of my dog. Are people really that dim just for the sake of principles?

And what if your dog decided one day it didn't like the massive animal walking past it and nipped the horses ankles.

So why do people I know ride with loose dogs?

I'm not talking about foxhounds and a hunt. I'm talking about people who go out from their stables with a friendly dog alongside who stays or decides to take himself back halfway through?

Their horses are accustomed to non-reactive dogs. If they aren't, then they shouldn't be out.

The dog in this case is unknown to the horse/rider.

I wouldn't take my dogs out with me on a bridleway because although they are well trained and have good recall I cannot be 100% sure they will not do something unexpected to another horse/dog/cyclist/runner/walker etc. I know some people do, but I imagine they are not the people who would be asking other dog owner's to put their dogs on leads.

I happily let my dogs loose when I'm riding on my own land though, in the knowledge that I they might do something daft. However, as it is my land, my horse and my dogs I would only have myself to blame (and only me or my animals would be affected). Likewise, I don't mind if I come across a dog not on a lead as long as it's owner has it to heel/clearly under control. The op said she would have to "dive into the nettles" to retrieve her dog, which does suggest the dogs are not exactly under control and she is relying on the fact that the dogs have not approached/barked at/attacked a horse before. Which is, in my view, irresponsible.

I agree that riders have to take some responsibility too- they should ensure that they are capable of riding the horse they are on and that the horse is reasonably well-schooled. However, no horse can ever be expected to never spook/kick out etc if frightened- even the most docile, well schooled and sensible horse can act this way if frightened. Young horses need experience to become accustomed to dogs, they don't just come "ready made" and they are not robots. If asked in these circumstances, I really would expect an owner to either get their dog to heel or sit, or put them on a lead- for everyone's safety.

To those suggesting dismounting- that would, in most instances, be far more dangerous as you have less control on the ground than riding in most circumstances. I would not advocate getting off every time you see a dog walker, it just makes the horse believe there is something to fear.

I find it astounding that some dog owners would risk injury to their dog, the horse and rider and potentially themselves for the sake of a few minutes of their time or to make a point.

One other way of looking at it - if you had your dog on a lead, and I was walking along with my horse walking along beside me and no visible means of control, what would you do? Because my horse will do this. I can bring him in from the field by walking up to him, saying "are you coming in then?" and walking off, with him following me. True I put his headcollar on to do the gate but this morning I also needed to fiddle around with some electric fencing and didn't want him near it so I got him through the gate, parked him up, asked him to stay and he stayed whilst I did the electric fence back up. Then we walked up to the yard together.

I know it sounds really odd. We never think of taking a horse for a walk without some kind of lead rein to control it. Yet we do this with dogs, no questions asked. So if, on a bridle path, I politely ask you to put your dog on a lead, or warn you that my horse doesn't like loose dogs, I'm not asking you to do anything with your dog that I haven't already done with my horse.

Nice of the OP to come back - kind of makes me wonder a bit.......

It's difficult when riders and others, including dog walkers come into regular contact.

But I still maintain that many people who own horses also own dogs and go out with them. And those dogs aren't on leads.

I am aware of this because I was a rider in a suburban area. My problem wasn't dogs in particular. It was walkers or people approaching me with slower horses or horses that might be spooked by mine.

When you see another rider approaching you slow or stop don't you? You shout 'coming by' don't you? Particularly if they are going slower than you or you notice that their horse is getting a bit fresh. And you should be able to keep your horse under control, barring accidents. Or have I got that wrong?

All of that irritated me because I wanted a good run. But they were entitled to use the same bridlepath as me and because of the place I rode in, I was very likely to come in conflict with other people. It would have been rude and downright dangerous for me to rush past them.

There are more dog owners than riders and I think it's reasonable for dog owners to allow well-behaved dogs off the lead on public walkways and to expect riders to be able to control their horses or think about whether they should take them out if they can't cope with dogs, push chairs, traffic or crisp packets.