To think if the school says that girls can no longer wear shorts to school, then they should say the same for boys?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

DD1's school has no uniform. She got sent back to the dorm last week because she was told that shorts were no longer permitted for girls at school. They are not "short shorts" with her arse hanging out, and she was wearing thick tights underneath them. They have since banned shorts for girls but not for boys. The boys seem to get away with wearing what they like" vest tops and shorts, T shirts with inappropriate slogans and pictures (eg a photo of a woman's breasts, a cartoon of the cookie monster with a naked woman thrown over his shoulder), whereas girls get sent to change for any minor infraction - eg a skirt that is slightly above knee length.

They have no dress code as such (we have checked). AIBU to think they should bring one in for both sexes, if they are going to police the girls so rigorously?

(We have already had one run in with the girl, as the girls were expected to do their own laundry, whereas the boys get it done for them, and have won that battle...)

[Kampeki]

At the end of the day, OP, it's entirely your choice to keep your dd at the same school. I am simply saying that there is no way that I would leave my own dd in that kind of environment.

[SirChenjin]

To a parent of a pupil at a state school who wasn't absolutely horrified by this? Oh yes, I'd be saying the same as I (and many other posters) already have.

But that's the great thing about state schools (in this part of the UK) - I wouldn't even have to have this conversation with the school.

[BertrandRussell]

"And FWIW, almost all of the boys who are wearing the tee shirts are not boarders, so have parents who think it is acceptable to wear stuff like that to school."

Why is this relevant?

[SoldierBear]

AS there is no "new regime" in the school as a whole, that implies the school has no issue with these t-shirts. These day boys were not sent home to change, which would have been the appropriate thing to do
Which is very worrying.
But you have no concerns over the pastoral care in a community where it is seen as acceptable for boys to wear these t-shirts while girls are not allowed to wear shorts. A community that permits boys to wear t-shirts sexually objectifying women and forbids girls to wear non-short shorts.
Have you considered what messages this community is sending out to the male and female pupils in its care? Because they are essentially telling girls to cover up, while boys can wear clothing showing breasts.
Yuk. What hypocritical double standards.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Well, yes, I have SoldierBear. Which is why I am raising it with the school...

[MrsSchadenfreude]

And which is the better thing to do? Pull Dd out, half way through her sixth form, in a fit of high moral ground, or to work with staff to change the ethos of the school for those who come after DD?

[SirChenjin]

Are they going to pay you to work with their educational professionals when you explain how establishments should operate in 2015? This is really not your role or job OP - they shouldn't have to rely on parents working with them to show them how inappropriate this is.

And a fit of moral high ground? Really - is that how you see things?

[SoldierBear]

Okay, so now you do have concerns about the pastoral care (the personal and social well-being of the pupils) the school provide. And the attitudes they promote. And I don't blame you. It is very concerning, especially when you consider the deeper implications.

I would absolutely transfer my child to another school, because the fact the school promote this inequality would be a deal breaker for me. It is very, very unlikely this attitude is going to change in a few months or even years.

It would not be a "fit of moral high ground" - but acknowledging the school was a poor choice. Why expect your DD to live in a community with such blatant disrespect for women? How is the school teaching their pupils about respect when they permit the boys to wear these shirts?

[AliceInSandwichLand]

No argument that the dress code policy and sexist culture is awful for all the reasons previously stated, but would all those saying they would move someone in the middle of sixth form, when as far as we know the girl is generally happy at the school and is progressing satisfactorily with her education, really do so if it was their 17 year old offspring, on a point of principle, when the girl only moved into the school a year ago, had to settle and make friends then, and will be moving on in another year anyway? If I were Mrs S's daughter and got moved a few months before university application for this reason, even if I was basically getting on ok myself, I'd be furious. Isn't it better to call the school out on it, as she is doing, and try to change the culture by showing the DD that it's unacceptable and giving her the practical lesson - as she already has - that constructive criticism is sometimes an effective force for change?

[SoldierBear]

Yes, I would definitely move my child under the circumstances described.

And we did do just that. DSD moved after Standard Grades, because we were all unhappy with the culture/ethos of the school. And that is not something that is going to be changed quickly, especially where the school does not even realise it is not acceptable to have boys wearing t-shirts like that and send them home to change but insists a girl cannot wear shorts. That would give me serious concern about underlying attitudes about attitudes to women and worries about safeguarding.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Thank you, Alice. She doesn't want to move schools - she has a good set of friends, is doing well and is happy. She is bright enough to realise that the crap about the dress code (or lack of) is wrong, and to want to do something about it. I think it's one thing to move a child after GCSEs, when there is a natural break, but quite another to move them half way through the sixth form. And at 17, arguably, she should have quite a lot of say in that.

I wouldn't be surprised if individual teachers don't say something to the boys about their tee shirts, but they don't seem able to enforce it. I think it is relevant to say that most of the boys who wear these tee shirts (and I don't think there are a huge number of them) are day pupils, and taken to the school by their parents, rather than boarders, who go into London and buy the tee shirts without their parents knowing. That says to me that the parents don't see a problem with it or condone the wearing of these clothes.

[sparkysparkysparky]

Pretty off topic but when she gets to world of work she'll find that, in an office, men are often banned from wearing cool comfortable clothes for aesthetic reasons and women can wear strappy tops, sandals etc without censure. Sorry for going pretty off topic but this is a bugbear of mine.

[SirChenjin]

Would I move my teen at that stage? I'm not sure - I would like to think that I had looked into the ethos of the school and the discipline within it so that I didn't find myself in this position. If I did then I certainly wouldn't be working with the staff to rectify things - that's their job. I would be complaining formally and would expect an immediate resolution.

[Girlwhowearsglasses]

I hate uniform. I'm glad your DD doesn't have to wear it. I was lucky enough to go to a school without, and we were expected to learn what was appropriate. Boys and girls. We did definitely have a 'learning curve' but in practice we mostly wore jeans and long skirts (it was hippy nineties). In contrast the nearby secondaries were full of girls desperately trying to wear their uniform skirts as short as humanly possible for some sense of individuality.

It would have been lovely to hear that the boys had been made to do their laundry too! Shame....

[MrsSchadenfreude]

We did look into the ethos of the school, and the discipline, and were quite satisfied with what we heard and saw - eg they have zero tolerance for drugs and have just expelled one boy who had cannabis in his room. When DD started, the issue of sexist laundry didn't arise, as she got it done for her (as they all did) - it was only when she went into sixth form that we discovered this (and it is not mentioned anywhere in the school literature). I have to say "Do you allow boys to wear clothes with inappropriate slogans?" was not one of the questions on my list. I was concerned with the house parents, the pastoral care in the boarding house, the academics, the food, the facilities etc etc. And when we looked round, we didn't see any clothing that made us suck our teeth - it was nearly all jeans and hoodies for both sexes, none of the "mini hooker look" that you sometimes see in schools.

All I can do is challenge and complain when I see things that are fundamentally wrong. And that's what I'm doing.

[Marynary]

Of course the rules should be the same for the boys as for girls. It is surprising that you even need to ask. It is also surprising that the rule for laundry existed at all (until you complained about it). Didn't other parents complain about it?
I agree that there isn't much you can do about it now your daughter is in the middle of her A levels but it doesn't say much for your choice of school.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

No, of course, Marymary, because absolutely one of the first things you ask, when looking round a school, is whether both the boys and girls both have to do their laundry, or whether the little princes are protected from this "shitwork". Clearly other parents didn't complain about it - or perhaps didn't know. The school has a lot of overseas students. The question about laundry clearly wasn't at the forefront of their parents' minds when choosing a school either. Funny that.

[AliceInSandwichLand]

Have just run this scenario past my own DD, who as it happens is in exactly the same academic year, albeit not at boarding school, who (how pleasing!) agrees with me that the policy is dreadful but that moving because of it would create far worse problems; she says - as someone in the middle of AS exams well might! - that it might be hard to find another school that does the same combination of exam boards, which would be essential if changing half way through the course, quite apart from any social or other issues that might result. And, as Mrs S says, surely at 17 the girl should have a large say in what happens anyway, given she will be an adult in less than a year?

[SirChenjin]

I do hope your complaints are acted upon within a very short period of your making them then. It's an awful set of affairs - unbelievable that any teacher would think it so appropriate they wouldn't have put an end to it the moment they knew it was happening - or at the very least, raised it with the Head to enable them to deal with it.