To rally Irish voters here and ask is anyone voting No tomorrow?

[LayMeDown]

I know there's lots of Irish on MN. I don't know anyone in RL voting No. But polls indicates it's tightening a lot. I'm getting scared it won't pass and my lovely brother and his partner will be left out in the cold again. What are you all hearing in your circles?

FYI for any non Irish there is a referendum tomorrow on introducing same sex marriage in Ireland.

[moresnow]

I left Ireland 17 years ago. My parents are always good to my partner when we visit, but I haven't asked them how they're going to vote because I think one of them might be voting no.

[IrishDad79]

Voting Yes all the way in my house. Yes has been well ahead in the polls up to now but there is a strong older rural Catholic vote which, I believe, will come down heavily on the no side and which I don't think has been fully captured in the polls. So I think the vote will be a lot closer than people expect.

[Aermingers]

LayMeDown, bit late in the thread, but thanks, didn't know there were civil partnerships. But then I am only a plastic. :)

[twinjocks]

Yes all the way in my house too. Having been confident that Yes would win by a mile, I am now very worried that the No camp will edge it. I cannot understand the reasoning behind anyone voting No. My 70yo MiL is campaigning for a Yes around all her bingo halls, bridge classes, bus and Luas journeys!! Go MiL!!! YES YES YES

[annieoaklie]

Yes here too. I just recieved the most breaking email from my cousin who is gay and has been out campaigning for several weeks about how much it will mean to him personally. He has been subjected to vial abuse on the doorsteps and had all the windows of his house smashed in because they displayed a Yes for equality poster.

i don't know if it has been mentioned up thread but anyone undecided should look at the Mary McAleese speech to Belongto on utube.

[MaidOfStars]

Why on earth would a gay person vote 'No'? It's like a black person voting for segregation.

[villainousbroodmare]

I'm very firmly in the Tá camp but I know a startling number of Nílers. I reckon this is going to be horribly close.
I think that there are quite a number of instinctive traditionalists who will vote no but would not mind a yes vote winning the day; they simply feel that the old order is preferable without meaning any real malice towards the gay population. Thoughtless and unfortunate.
I think that in that instinctive conservative group, which probably is typical of a lot of rural Ireland, only those who know and love an openly gay person will vote yes. And it takes serious balls to be out and proud in rural Ireland.
I'm very concerned that this won't pass.

[LauraMipsum]

Oh, nice link Maryz and Lotta I also liked the "Every child deserves a mother's love" section.

That's why my DD has two of us. Possibly not what the authors meant.

[TheVeryThing]

I actually feel quite sick about this now. So many people feel so strongly about this issue, surely it will pass.
On a lighter note, have you seen this video ?

[Andrewofgg]

There's something troubling about the thought that many more people are going to vote in a particular way than are willing to say so (Conservative in England, No in Scotland last September, No in Ireland tomorrow). It suggests a degree of intimidation which is just as wrong and bad as it is in the opposite direction.

What about the other referendum, which an Irish colleague of mine says is about Presidents whose mothers don't know they're out?

[LaurieMarlow]

For those voting no, I'd love to know your thought on the following …

The concept of marriage has so much cultural, psychological, social, historical resonance. It seems deeply unfair to want to deny this to homosexual couples. Why should heterosexual couples get to have a monopoly on this concept?

The world is a constantly changing, evolving place. Our language reflects this & definitions morph & adjust with time. Why are we so hung up on the Oxford Dictionary definition of marriage and why do we insist that this should be set in stone?

A no vote is a vote to discriminate. Don't kid yourself that this is not the case.

[Lottapianos]

For all those wringing their hands about the children, they need to remember that same sex couples have to make a positive decision to have children - it can't just happen accidentally like with many opposite sex couples. Surely that makes them MORE likely to be good parents?!

But oh yes, men and women are so totally different blah blah blah pukes

[Calfon]

I am not sure that rural Ireland is necessarily going to vote against this. I live in rural Ireland and everyone I have spoken to are yes regardless of age group. The only person who has said they are going to vote No is younger than me and a city boy. This is an interesting article from a former ICA President about why she is voting yes: www.thejournal.ie/readme/former-president-irish-countrywomens-association-vote-yes-marriage-referendum-2114566-May2015/?fb_ref=Default

[LaurieMarlow]

Another issue with the 'a child needs a mother & a father' argument is that it equates sex with clear & definite gender characteristics.

There are many women out there (straight & gay) who display what we traditionally see as 'male' characteristics and attributes. And of course vice versa. My mother wears the trousers in her relationship and is very dominant and assertive. My father is a softly spoken, gentle, domesticated man. There will be a balance of traditional male/female gender qualities across a gay relationship too. It's nothing like as neat and straightforward as the traditionalists would have you believe.

The reductio ad absurdum conclusion of the 'a child needs a father and a mother' argument is that a child needs 1 parent with a penis and one with a fanjo. They need those things to pro-create, sure. But I don't see their necessity to parenting.

[Radyward]

I am voting no . I was all for a yes vote up to yesterday . The carry on of the media-the bully boy tactics of anyone with a differing opinion . The sense of a 'given ' result before its even polling day .
I know loads voting no that have changed in the last day or two - I am 41 university educated and have gay friends and am agnostic I think it will be v v close . Think the polls in the last few weeks are skewed given that most younger people when asked won't be honest in their reply if it's really a no iykwim.
Catholic Ireland gets on my wick= my change of mind is nothing to do with that
×
Was listening to news talk yesterday who said on the surrogacy issue the government has been decidedly shifty on it so that is concerning.
also I do not want my 6 yr old educated in junior infants regarding gay/ Lesb relationships or at a younger age than what I'd like
those are my concerns and that's why I'm a no

[Iggi999]

What will happen to your six year old if they learn that some people have two mums etc? Will they catch it?

[LaurieMarlow]

also I do not want my 6 yr old educated in junior infants regarding gay/ Lesb relationships or at a younger age than what I'd like

in the upcoming referendum, you're not voting on the age at which your child will be educated about homosexual relationships.

You are voting on whether gay couples whose unions are already recognised by law can be afforded the symbolic resonance and additional rights that go along with marriage.

[Radyward]

Sorry to add when it's the pencil in the polling station I think a lot of people will waiver -also will all those students and workers make the effort to get to the schools for something that doesn't affect them directly ?????it will be down to the wire -it it is passed I will be in no way upset -my no vote is exercising my right and is standing up to freedom of speech which has definately been questionable towards the no campaign.
My db thinks a lot of no voters will be a sort of anti government vote too
Fascinating it is

[duplodon]

You are going to vote no on an issue of lasting significance to the Irish people to stick it to the government and make an obscure point about free speech?

I was 17 when the No side for the divorce referendum told me over and over again that I had no future and would be fucked up forever as I came from a broken home. I felt so ashamed. Anyone who can support those pictures of tearful kids or condone the pain caused to so many by posters saying 'a mother's love is irreplaceable' (like my four young cousins whose mother died of cancer in recent months) really needs lessons in reading comprehension and human empathy. This is not about parenting or sex ed. It is solely about the legal definition of marriage in Ireland.

[villainousbroodmare]

Radyward, I know what you mean about certain pushy/bullyish elements in the media, but how will it hurt them if you vote no? It won't affect them at all; it will only affect the lives of thousands of ordinary quiet gay people who will feel rejected and marginalised.
We will get a chance to decide on the surrogacy issue in due course.
And if your six year old becomes aware that some kids have two mammies or two daddies, how will that hurt her?

[LauraMipsum]

Rady what are you going to do if your 6yo is in a class with a child from a rainbow family like mine? My kid will need educating, I'm not homeschooling her just so that other people's 6yos don't discover I exist. And even if you refused to let your child play with mine because I'm gay (which would be a bit anyway) my child is probably going to mention in the playground that she has two mothers. So honest question, I'm not trying to be difficult, what exactly do you think you can do (or I can do) to keep myself a secret from my child's classmates?

[villainousbroodmare]

Sadly I think that Radyward is right in one thing; the campaign has been so long and tiresome that many (I think foolish) people are going to be tempted to vote no for the same reason that they are protesting against water charges - non-specific irritation with what they perceive to be the establishment.

[duplodon]

Which is always a problem in Irish elections. I don't think party political campaigning should have been allowed for this reason.