A child is not a 'basic human right'

[aibuyes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2982669/Young-woman-children-denied-IVF-NHS-s-taking-case-Strasbourg-having-child-basic-human-right.html

Warning; DAILYFAIL LINK

But really, would anyone think a child is a basic human right? I sympathise for the woman that she is unable to have a baby, but I really disagree her that she wants NHS funding to have a child, even though her partner has a daughter that by their own admission, never stays over (so, I tend to think he is not being an active father role in her life, but that is reading between the lines).

She is a barmaid, he left his job as a supermarket manager (currently unemployed) so are unable to afford private treatment.

I can think of so many other things the NHS can better spend their money on!

[crackerjack00]

[EmptySoulKindHeart]

ah llama did i hurt your feelings, unfortunately being called brainless a troll who spends its life on mnet really isn't an insult. Diddams.

[Devora]

Sorry you had a rough day, cracker. I found those early months really tough. Much sympathy.

[crackerjack00]

Welcome to Mumsnet, by the way, empty

[crackerjack00]

Thanks, Devora.

[EmptySoulKindHeart]

Miltonmaid, a child is a choice, disease isn't, they're not the same.

[Devora]

And for you. No doubt you'll be need both

[BubblesInMyBath]

I think it's the wording that's wrong "basic human right" - no I don't think it is

But as someone who went through years of infertility and also wouldn't be approved for the adoption process even if I wanted to (despite being a capable mum to a biological child now) I DO think that the rule is massively unfair and if we help any - we should help all. I would have happily saved and paid all the money in the world to conceive - mentally and emotionally I was derailed by the devastating news that I couldn't naturally. I don't think people can ever perceive how much this changes you and hurts you unless they have experienced it themselves

But I live in the UK where there is funding available for some, I don't think it's fair for a woman to be refused because her partner has a child with someone else, that child isn't hers to carry, bond with and raise. I think they should perhaps allow an affordable route for all rather than give some a chance and others none - maybe pay 50% or something

[Miltonmaid]

Perhaps you should tell the world health Organisation and NICE then because those medical experts define infertility as a disease of the reproductive system.

[Miltonmaid]

www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/infertility/definitions/en/

[Devora]

Anyway, back to the thread. I don't think they'll get anywhere arguing that being helped to have a child is a basic human right (as opposed to not being stopped from having a child). But this really comes down to whether and how the NHS should finance IVF, which we have debated endlessly on here. Only thing I know for sure is how much subfertility hurts, so my heart really goes out to her.

Talking about adoption is irrelevant. She doesn't want to adopt.

[tilliebob]

I was told as a teenager it was unlikely I'd never have children. I was with my now DH even then. Never considered IVF but did start on the adoption process. I agree that it's not a basic human right but it is a biological urge.

[EmptySoulKindHeart]

Unfortunately i don't have the time to call up my old friends in those to tell them but i will keep it on my to do list, especially for you.
And When cancer and other diseases produce a life rather then taking, then your point will make sense.
A child is a choice, not a right.

[BubblesInMyBath]

Also my infertility is caused by two medical issues (not sure if diseases?)

Pcos and endometriosis

I suffer excruciating pain due to endometriosis, have been hospitalised many times due to the pain, had tons of time off work in hospital with unmanageable pain

I suffer mood swings, insulin resistance, depression, have bald patches on my head and continue losing hair constantly, struggle to lose weight but gain immediately, and also had it not been detected in time would have got cancer due to my PCOS (currently having treatment to try and reverse cell changes)

There's far more than just "not being able to have a baby" that infertile women cope with

[Shockers]

If you ever want a chat, don't be put off by my upbeat post... we've been through a lot with one of ours and I've researched attachment in detail! We are 13 years in. Please PM me if you want a non judgemental ear... I whittled my friends down to those who understood and those who didn't on the early days.

I did the same with DS1 though!

Life is good... but I still remember.

[MissYamabuki]

I was under the impression that the right to family life IS a basic human right.

Hopefully a knowledgeable MNr will come along and expand on the meaning of "family life" in this context.

[Chillyegg]

....some very flippant comments on hear goodness! clutches pearls

I think the just adopt stuff is really thoughtless there are 100's of reasons why conceiving is hard or near impossible for some. Most of them nothing the women or man could control , doesn't stop that urge for a baby does it?
As someone who fortunately got pregnant very easily this time I can't imagine the personal struggle that some people go through. However I would also love to adopt and or foster in the future and I'm aware unfortunately children aren't a right, they are a fantastic privilege.

If we can live in a country where local councils and governments can fund all sorts of bollocks including their own personal second homes. Surely we can afford to give each couple at least one chance?
Maybe if we cut down on horrendous hospital politics, frittering of recourses and big pay checks to those the least deserving that chance could be given.
steps down of high horse

[Shockers]

Sorry, my last post was for Crackerjack.

[crackerjack00]

Thank you shockers. I may well take you up on that

[Shockers]

for you too

[morethanpotatoprints]

I don't think its human right but I do think that people should be financially supported through the NHS.

The nicest story I ever heard still makes me well up.
Mum and Dad went to docs and had tests, there was no fertility aids back then. They were told they couldn't have dc and the doc asked them if they wanted an explanation. They both declined because all they needed to know that between them they couldn't have bio dc.
They adopted 3 of us, throughout the years and fostered countless babies.
There were thousands of babies to adopt, homes full of them, there was no problem for those who couldn't conceive they did just adopt.
Even then it wasn't an easy thing to do, they were scrutinised and couldn't have so much as a parking ticket.
No drinking, not really even socially. Had to be members of community and attend church. Mum wasn't allowed to work.
We don't have thousands of babies to adopt now and those who need help should receive it.
What is the use of all the medical breakthroughs for infertility treatment trying to find new ways etc if people aren't entitled to access them.

So please don't say just adopt - it isn't as easy as that.
Don't say people shouldn't be entitled to treatment.

[asmallandnoisymonkey]

Yep, sorry but a 'family' doesn't have to include children. Honestly.

[Devora]

MissYamabuki - I think the right to family life is generally taken to mean the right not to have your freedom to enjoy family life interfered with, rather than an entitlement to have others facilitate your fertility.

[asmallandnoisymonkey]

Totally agree Devora - for goodness sake. It makes anyone screeching that they have a right to children sound incredibly entitled. You do not have a right to have children. Those words should sound ridiculous to you if you say them out loud.