to have not let this go with my dad and ended up in an argument? (TRIGGER WARNING: Rape)

[Bogeyface]

Locally there has been relatively important public figure accused of rape.

I was discussing it with my mother and she said that she doesnt know what she thinks, but I said that the fact it got to court at all, especially taking into account that it happened several years ago, suggests that the CPS must have some pretty damning evidence. I said that considering that most reported rapes dont get to court because of a lack of evidence, the fact that this one did says that there is something in the accusation. She conceded that I had a point but I could see that she wasnt convinced.

Then my dad says "Well its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, she says he did, he says he didnt, its probably a misunderstanding" and I was really cross and said that I was appalled that he viewed rape like that. I said that his attitude was one of the reasons that many women dont bother reporting rape because they know that the chances of conviction are tiny, as most of the jury will have that attitude. Anyway, it went on and we ended up having a row about it, which shook me, I havent hada row with dad in years and years. He stormed off and obviously thinks that I am in the wrong and should accept that the accused probably didnt do it as the woman sounded "like a piece of work" (DONT GET ME STARTED ON THAT ).

Mum says I should have left it and not got into a row, I said that I would get into a row with anyone with that attitude to women and to rape. I asked her how she would feel if I was the victim and someone said that about me, she sort of shrugged and said that I still should have let it go.

I had to ring them about something a few minutes ago and dad was really short and snotty with me on the phone, not like him at all, but I was damned if I was going to let a comment like that go unchallenged. The court case is ongoing and if I mention it again I just know that mum will try to shut me up about it, rather than "make a fuss" and "wind your dad up".

WIBU? I wasnt was I? Questioning myself now!

[FaithLoveandGrace]

I went to the police when I was sexually assaulted. They wouldn't even take a statement as they said it was my word against his, especially as I'd left it a few weeks before reporting. There has to be some pretty substantial evidence for it to be taken as far as court. YANBU, at all! I've argued with my parents about this in the past and there's absolutely no way I'd let it drop. It's a disgusting attitude to have :(

[MrsBethel]

Some arguments go on and on because you're both wrong.

If you're position was something akin to 'it got to court so there must be something in it' then no way should anyone back down in the face of that.

Likewise if you're dad is saying 'it was probably a misunderstanding' then no way I'd back down in the face of that.

Result:
10 "you're wrong" restate own view",
20 "no, you're wrong" restate other view
30 goto 10.

[pbwer]

But women do lie about these things. When I was at school a gril in my class said she was raped by a teacher ( there wasn't even a dodgy relationship going on here she was just being spiteful - and later admitted this - and ended up with a police record because of this)

[BarbarianMum]

The CPS don't send anything to court unless they think there is a realistic chance of a successful prosecution. The fact that people are found not guilty all the time would suggest their assessment is not always correct. That's true of all crimes.

Rape, by its very nature, is a difficult crime to prosecute. And huge shifts in public attitutude will be needed to change this, so I can see why you argued with your dad but 'no smoke without fire' is a shit premise to run a justice system on and I hope you wouldn't think that way if you were on a jury.

[VitoCorleoneAgain]

YANBU i had a row with a co-worker recently. My blood is still boiling over it.

We where discussing a local case of a man being accused of rape. My co-worker said "well, if you go back to a hotel room with a man you're just asking for it" I don't think ive ever been so livid, and wont repeat what i said on here as it might upset some people, she's not spoken to me since, and frankly i couldn't give a flying monkeys

[MorrisZapp]

I always think of innocent until proven guilty as a strictly legal concept. I support it legally.

But personally, I often have very strong opinions about people's innocence or otherwise based upon what I've read and understood about a case.

If somebody has committed a crime, then they are guilty of it from the moment they committed it. They don't become innocent of it until twelve random people say otherwise.

[Suzannewithaplan]

?
I'm wondering if part of his anger is due to the fact that you won't back down and defer to him?
His 'masculine authority' is being challenged and he doesn't like it.

He won't 'agree to differ' that seems like a defensive ?kind of stance, perhaps he does realise that he being unreasonable or sort of pulling rank but he just won't back down and admit that he may be wrong or that it's not as black and white as he likes to paint it

[BarbarianMum]

[Suzannewithaplan]

the two things would tend to co exist I suspect Barbarian?

[stubbornstains]

suzanne, barbarian Yup, same with my dad, too. Due to the way he (and many of his generation) were brought up, he labours under his cosy set of assumptions over the Way Things Are, and doesn't like having them challenged one little bit. And part of the Way Things Are is that older men innately have superior knowledge and understanding to younger women, which leads to their opinion innately being worth more (ahem, dusts chip off shoulder ).

My dad has defended Rolf Harris in my presence- luckily, in this case, my mum and DP both shot him down. He's never gone as far as Jimmy Savile in my earshot, but I do wonder.....

I would have done exactly the same as you, OP.

[newnamefor15]

'well, if you go back to a hotel room with a man you're just asking for it'

I hate this attitude so much, but it's so prevalent and I've never really found way to challenge it other than getting them to think about what they are saying a bit more deeply.

Me: Asking for what? To be raped?
And they usually splutter no, but say it's obviously for sex.
Me: For sex? Yes, I agree that's a reasonable assumption between the two of them that sex is probably going to happen. Assumption. Probably. does that mean that the woman isn't allowed to change her mind? Ifthey say no, then say 'exactly!'.
If they say yes, then ask them are they seriously saying that if a man has had an expectation of sex, he is allowed to force the woman if it turns out that his expectation was wrong, or if the woman changes her mind? so that shouldn't be illegal, shouldn't be rape? That an expectation of sex created in a man's mind at say 10pm, means that the woman is obliged to have sex with him at 10.30pm? Women can't ever change their minds?

And if they still don't get it I hit them with the fact that I got as far as DPs bedroom on our 2nd date, with snogging and all sorts. He thought this would progress to sex. Fair enough assumption. I was considering it myself but I decided I didn't want to. He, because he is a normal man, had the attitude of 'ok then'. A not-normal man, a rapist, would have raped me. Would I have been 'asking for it' even though I said 'let's not'? Are they saying that I shouldn't have been allowed to make that decision? Are they saying I'd entered into some kind of legal contract with DP to provide him with sex? Did I deserve to be raped for going into his room?

[Suzannewithaplan]

?
Replace sex with say, a game of cards

A person gives every impression of being up for a game of cards but then at the last minute after the deck has been shuffled says she doesn't want to after all, the other person wouldn't try and force her to play cards.

Why in some people's minds is it different with sex??

[TooHasty]

Some men rape.Some women make up rape allegations.nerither of you know, meither of you are party to all the evidence.You and your DF are as bad as each other trying to second guessthe outcome of the case.Hopefully unlike the pair of you, the jury have gone in with an open mind.

[Suzannewithaplan]

I am led to the conclusion that men do it just because they can physically overpower the woman, the reward is the feeling of being able to dominate and control another person.

[Burke1]

I agree with TooHasty. We know for sure that some men rape, and some women make false allegations of rape. I don't see any way for us to know which is true in this case apart from waiting to hear the outcome.

[Bogeyface]

Where did I say we were trying to second guess anything?!

I was angry at his attitude especially as it seemed to be based on his view of the woman concerned, I was merely pointing out that for the case to have got as far as it did then there must be a decent amount of credible evidence otherwise the CPS would not have agreed to prosecute.

And FYI, he got found Not Guilty this morning. Note Not Guilty as opposed to Innocent.

[Burke1]

HouseWhereNobodyLives it's not misleading at all , and I never suggested that the figures were equal. We know for a fact that some men rape people, we also know for a fact that some women make false allegations of rape. One of these is true, and while the statistics would suggest on average the man is more likely to be lying, we can't let that become the deciding factor. No one should jump to conclusions in a rape case. Doing so could ruin the reputation of someone who might be innocent.