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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

my LL shouldn't evict my downstairs neighbour

69 replies

Grrmum · 31/01/2015 08:14

I live in a house with a separate flat in the basement. The house is four floors and the flat is just half of the basement, so our rent is a lot more than his. The LL wants to sell the house (as one obviously) - the sale has been rumbling on for a while, with two sales falling through. Towards the end of the last sale he gave my downstairs neighbour 2 months notice to leave on January 4th. I thought this was bad because the xmas period is not good for flat hunting. So he had a miserable Christmas and didn't find a flat. We didn't get given notice (because he doesn't want to lose our rent).

So, January 4th comes and goes, my neighbour is in a right state because he is 70, not in great health, has no internet access, hasn't found anywhere. He has packed up lots of his stuff but he is still there, having nowhere else to go. LL came to visit him with his DSIS and they 'find' him a potential flat online, he said he didn't like it and didn't want to move there. So they said, right, you've known for ages the house was being sold, you've had plenty of time and you're not willing to look at the options we show you. They started legal action to evict him and have told him he could end up paying 2k in legal fees and have his possessions repossessed. He is now walking around like a wreck.

Then the second sale fell through at the last minute (after he gave downstairs neighbour notice) and now the flat is on the open market (the previous two were off-market so no viewings). We have been suffering 8-10 viewings a week which I know we don't have to allow, but I did because we have always got on well with the LL, even though he didn't have the common decency to ask us if we minded or offer a rent discount.

We haven't been given notice and our rent day is the 24th, so we'll be here until April 24th. The LL and his sister are very wealthy, very young (24 and 26) and this man is very old and very poor. Does anyone not agree that they could let him know he has another month under the new circumstances and withdraw all the threats? His rent cheque was returned uncashed this month.

OP posts:

LaLa5 · 31/01/2015 09:58

Ha grrr I don't mind admitting I'm wrong! But now I feel picked on and might abdicate to net mums...

Ok that was a lie...it's never that bad!

But yes, I was wrong!

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 31/01/2015 10:00

That was a x post!

engeika · 31/01/2015 10:05

I do feel sorry for the neighbour and second the advice to get in touch with with Shelter/ Council / CAB etc.

The viewings are at the discretion of the tenant as others have said. You can put it into the contract but you still need tenants permission. It is your home for the duration of the tenancy.

Original poster

Grrmum · 31/01/2015 10:06

OK, well I've edited it and posted in legal. I'll get him to get the paperwork together and maybe go with him to Shelter if he lets me.

Not in the forces, no.

OP posts:

LaLa5 · 31/01/2015 10:09

Good luck grrr!

Feminine · 31/01/2015 10:17

Although vulnerable, l wouldn't have him written off at 70. I appreciate we are all different, but it isn't ( good health provided) impossible for him to move at this time in his life. Many people downsize at his age.
My mum is 73 and has moved 3 times in the past 18 months.
I doubt he expected to "see out his days there"

notnaice · 31/01/2015 10:18

If they stop the proceedings now and let him have one more month, they'll be back at square one, when he refuses to move out then.
It's a sad situation but at least the ll did try to help. At the end of the day it is business though.

laughingmyarseoff · 31/01/2015 11:02

It's a shame, he must be in a state but Shelter are his best option. To be fair on the LL they just have to serve notice and nothing else, not help or suggest or even bother with.

I would imagine that they are worried he will decide to just stay and they'll need to evict hence why the threatening now whereas with you they believe you will leave at the end of the contract so you've been given notice later.

YABU to think they should give him another month, if they agree and cash the check then everything starts again. HIBU to think that he should turn available and suitable places down if he's desperate just because he doesn't like the type. I've been there and it's not nice but sometimes you just have to do it. His not wanting to try anything probably has fed the LL worries.

Your LL was taking the mickey with a 3 hour photo shoot and saying you should cancel a party.

Thymeout · 31/01/2015 11:17

An eviction may well turn out to be in the tenant's favour. It will give him priority with social housing. I know several people who have been told that the LA can't do anything for them until they have been evicted.

Why will he end up paying legal fees? Surely it's the LL who has to meet the cost.

gobbynorthernbird · 31/01/2015 11:55

Thyme, the LL will probably be awarded costs if it goes to court.

GraysAnalogy · 31/01/2015 12:22

Unfortunately we can't assume we can stay in properties for the rest of our lives if we private rent.

The landlord has been perfectly acceptable in his actions, and quite patient I thought.

He might be 70 but that doesn't mean anything. I'm sure he's capable of finding a new place if he puts his mind to it.

ShebaRabbit · 31/01/2015 12:52

That's lousy, particularly the threats to him that are obviously upsetting him. It may be a business decision for the LLs but its this man's home FFS and, in effect, with the Xmas period he was only given 6 weeks notice to come to terms with and act upon a major life change. Get him an appointment with Shelter.
The difference between what may be legal and what is moral is lost on these LLs. I don't have a problem with them managing their assets but threatening legal action on an old codger like that and showing a pic on the web of an unviable flat miles away is not a genuine attempt to help him, rather a calculated effort to demonstrate they recognise his vulnerability, it will probably be helpful to them winning their case of they do go to court.

tiggytape · 31/01/2015 13:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tryingtofindausername · 31/01/2015 13:30

70 is not 'very old' or particularly 'vulnerable.

Original poster

Grrmum · 31/01/2015 15:23

Thanks everyone. I'm going to focus on helping him find somewhere rather than asking the LL to be more merciful.

I just hope the LL needs to ask us for a favour over the next few months and I get to set some karma on his ass

OP posts:

Annietheacrobat · 31/01/2015 15:44

He's 70 not 90!

As a LL I would too be concerned with the tenant's lack of action WRT to looking for a new flat.

He is not their responsibility.

Do you live in an area with a difficult rental market ?

SaucyJack · 31/01/2015 15:50

Your best course of action if you want to annoy your landlord is to look for somewhere else now and hand your notice in ASAP, so he loses the last few months rent.

I'd do it anyway if I were you.

UncleT · 31/01/2015 15:59

Karma?? Wow, hope you never want to sell your own property. They're not a bloody charity and you shouldn't expect them to behave like one. All of this assumption about their money and their property actually makes you look very unreasonable. You may well claim to know them, but I doubt you know all of their ins and outs, but in any case it's irrelevant - it's their property and they can sell it if they wish. Him hanging about could make that very hard, they're entitled to deal with that.

expatinscotland · 31/01/2015 16:04

Why are you allowing all these viewings? I'd tell her to go fuck herself with all that. Fuck a rent discount. They sound like utter pricks.

expatinscotland · 31/01/2015 16:06

And what Saucy said. These people aren't your friends. They will serve notice on you ASAP. Find another place to live, hand in notice and move. Who cares if he doesn't get his rent? That and selling the place are not your problem.

Thymeout · 31/01/2015 16:14

From reading the govt advice on evictions, it sounds as if he will not be liable for the Ll's costs, providing he is not in arrears. (And they've just refused his rent cheque.) Once a possession order is granted by the court, he can take it to the council.

A neighbour went through this. She was specifically told by the L.A. not to move out until the Ll had a possession order from the court. She didn't have to pay any money. Mind you, she is still, six months on, living in 'temporary accommodation' over a chicken and chips shop.

So he needs to get advice and practical help from the CAB or Shelter.

In London, it is difficult enough for young, able-bodied couples in work to find rental accommodation, often paying out hundreds in agency fees, let alone a pensioner.

Original poster

Grrmum · 31/01/2015 16:16

uncleT the very nature of karma is that you get back what you give out. So here that means if they apply the law, they may just get the law applied to back to them. That's all there is to it, feel free to ask more questions if you're still confused.

The fact is they are gambling with timings keeping us on. With the previous sale they asked us to be cooperative in many ways and we did.

I have sold 2 properties this year, both with tenants under contract and on both occasions I have let them know what their rights are re viewings and discussed their options - one of their options has always been not to allow viewings.

expat I'm coming round to your way of thinking. We refused a viewing today because it was booked for 12 and they turned up at 1. DH works from home and was already immersed in it when they trooped in tripping over wires and squealing ooh look you can see the seeeeeeea. He sent them packing. They are probably just day trippers anyway.

OP posts:

expatinscotland · 31/01/2015 16:20

There's no such thing as karma. Get real. These people are not friends. You owe them nothing but the terms of your contract. He is not doing you any favours, why are you bending over backwards to suck his dick? You find another place to live. Fuck entertaining these viewings if they are not convenient for you. Hand in notice, leave.

Original poster

Grrmum · 31/01/2015 16:36

expat we're waiting for our sale to go through, so it suits us fine to hang on. But it is very likely that he will have to come to us to ask for surveys etc to be carried out. It's not a woo karma, just short-sightedness on his part.

OP posts:

CaffeLatteIceCream · 31/01/2015 17:26

Grrmum

The LL hasn't done anything wrong...yet. But if he and his sister keep showing up at the man's home threatening him with anything, then they are sailing very close to criminal harassment.

Legally, he has no obligation whatsoever to leave the flat yet. The S21 is not a notice to quit, it is a heads up saying that the landlord is intending to seek possession. Only the tenant or a judge can end a tenancy and that hasn't happened yet.

It's bollocks that he could end up losing his possessions. Threatening that is harassment. I also don't get why they are refusing his rent...he is still a tenant and still liable. By accepting it they are not creating a new tenancy. I don't think they are quite as on the ball as they think.

Also, when you get your S21, the expiry date should not be April 24, it's April 23....the last day of a rental period. Although there will probably be a savings clause, so as long as you get two clear months notice it won't be a big deal.

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