Private v state school

[Beautifulbabyboy]

Right this thread is not what you think, it is NOT about which is better blah blah....

However, I have been talking to my friends, who are a mixed bunch some have kids going to state school some have kids going to private school. There seems to be an over-riding concern by those who are sending their kids to state schools, that even if they could afford the private school fees they still wouldn't be able to "keep with the Jones's".... And would feel uncomfortable re kids parties/what car they drive etc....

This hadn't crossed my mind... I don't care if my family is the richest or poorest at what ever school they end up going to. AIBU? Would this bother you?

[TheSkiingGardener]

Depends on the school. At my sons school nobody gives a hoot. There is another private school I wouldn't touch with a bargepole as they sneer at those who are poorer. I don't think you can generalise.

[minipie]

It's a question of finding the right school/right group of friends within that school. I went to private school and in my group it was deeply deeply uncool to wear lots of branded clothes or talk about money or material stuff. Everyone had the same clothes, uniform at school and usually stuff from Gap or Camden market outside school. If someone did show off about money they were really frowned upon. Therefore we barely knew who had more or less money.

As many others say, kids at many state schools are just as likely to have differences between them in terms of wealth/material possessions, in fact there will probably be a wider range in terms of income.

[SonorousBip]

Private schools aren't all the same, though. I live in London and my DC are at independent schools but they are not "swanky" ones and their mates are a pretty mixed bag. I absolutely know that that is "mixed within the boundaries of being able to pay 5k a term". I would say the yummy mummy quotient is quite low and the 2 parent working family quotient is quite high.

At DS's secondary school, more than 50% came from state primaries, so it is hardly as if everyone was being chauffeured to school in an Aston Martin. Also, what DS is interested in - games and apps on his mobile/playing his guitar/daft whatsapp and Instagram messages/loafing in front of re-runs of Top Gear are pretty much universal among 13 year olds. I took a load of them to the cinema last week and it looked like they were all dressed head to toe in H&M.

My gut feel is really that children don't take that much notice of it. Interestingly a couple of DS's mates have several overseas breaks a year but that is because they have family in that country.

[ZebraDog]

It really depends on the school - we send DC to very academic schools which weren't at all snobby/pretentious. Neither are in tatler which I think is a good sign of a private school which is not too posh.
DC were normal not having extreme birthday parties or going on numerous luxury holidays so it was never an issue. They had some friends who did do these things but also lots of friends who didn't.

[CHJR]

We've found sort of the opposite situation here in London. One of our DC is in a private school, the other two are state. The private school parents don't seem to care a toss how much we can or can't afford and DS reports on his friends' having the latest iThingies without any seeming stress about it, more amusement at how spoiled they are. At the state school, though, I recently learned we are considered "flash" for having bought a new (second-hand) car recently, and at one playdate the other mum made some remark about not daring invite us back because she lives in a council flat, which made me feel really bad.

I do think Brits worry about this more than I'd ever have expected. And I think the less well-off think the rich notice more than the rich generally do. I haven't met anyone rich who cared a bit about our income (which is of course rather self-serving of them!) I'm so glad sometimes that being foreign-born I can sort of "pass" on both sides. Sad, yes?

[CHJR]

And the private school btw is definitely Tatler-posh, not of course that that is why we chose it...

[Beautifulbabyboy]

Thanks for all your comments. This is the kind of debate we are having in real life in my friendship group.. Except it was just me alone who thought that keeping up with the Jones's didn't matter...

[MrsMarigold]

My DH went to a private school but his parents had no money, they turned up in clapped out van while his peers arrived in Jags and Bentleys. Their house was in a dreadful state, buckets to catch water in because the roof leaked like a sieve. They only ever went on holiday to Scotland.

DH worries that the children should not be embarrassed to bring friends home and is very driven so it must've had an impact. I worry for my sweet sensitive DS as it's a social minefield.

[Greengrow]

In English culture if you show off material goods you are a bit common (so don't worry about posh people showing off expensive stuff at all - quite the converse).

[CHJR]

Actually I think you are so right, Greengrow, and this is another reason London especially doesn't fit stereotypes. Actually most of the rich people here are not at all posh and the posh people are not rich enough to live in London or to go to private schools.

In fact, the only time anyone at the private school has made any issue of money to me, it was one of the teachers, who made that very point. Afterwards my husband said to me that that teacher was having a dig at me for not being posh (which I'm not). But I (since I really don't have that particular chip on my shoulder, despite my other chips) think that he was just finding it hard to see that (as he said) all his pupils go on much more expensive holidays than he can ever afford. You think the students are the only ones who might notice???

[Bunbaker]

I think it depends on the school and the peer group, and the self confidence of the child.

A friend of mine sends her two eldest children to private school and is fed up of her daughter telling her she won't wear clothes from Next any more, but she has to have designer clothes. I don't think my friend has succumbed so far.

Another friend of mine went to private school and felt really left out because her peers had houses with tennis courts and swimming pools, and she did feel looked down upon.

[Idontseeanysontarans]

My state school DC's are friends with siblings who go to private school and the perceived difference has never come up. Their parents are rich - seriously stupidly rich, they have a gorgeous house and the lifestyle you would expect to go with it but in our group of friends there's no difference between them and any of the other children. They all mingle, the girls play together, the lads try and fail to look cool in front of girls together. They've been raised to not see themselves as better than anyone else.
It's all in the parents attitude I think.

[TheWomanTheyCallJayne]

I just asked ds1 if it bothered him.
"No, but it does make me laugh that Bob is going to be an Earl. He's got a lot of maturing to do.
...
And I'm more intelligent than most of them anyway"
So I told him to stop boasting but to be fair both boys are amongst the brightest. I don't know if that helps with the confidence factor. Maybe it's different if you're struggling academically and are poorer than your peers. It's probably rare.

[ladeedad]

I was the "only" poor child too at both private school and in halls. It was fine. I got to see how both halves live and it's given me such a balanced view on life. Plus being the poorest I could possibly be, I got full grants when my better off peers had to take loans or work part time jobs if not relying on bank of mum and dad!

[Idontseeanysontarans]

Actually I think Greengrow makes a good point - after watching the programme about Tatler magazine last week the seriously genuinely posh seem to take great pride in living somewhere in the mid 18th Century rather than showing off massive wealth with new things.

[Timetoask]

Ds goes to a brilliant prep school with oligarchs in the mix! So we are definitely at the bottom scale of wealth, although there are other people that I would consider to be in our bracket.
Amongst the rich parents I think there is definitely a preference to mingle with those of "their own kind".
It has not had an impact on DS, he knows other children are wealthier but to be honest he is a very grounded boy, he really doesn't care at all. I don't give in into all the hype of getting ipads and the like, and it has not affected him at all.
In fact, for me, it is a great opportunity for him to feel that he is as good as anyone else regardless of how much money they have. He is doing really well academically which helps.

On the other hand, I need to have a serious think about what sort of school we need for secondary. I think it is important to fit in as a teenager, I am not sure this type of circle is the right one.

[Bunbaker]

A friend of mine was clever enough to get into Cambridge. She said she felt really out of place amongst the privileged students who had never had to do a days work in their life. She felt she had nothing in common with them.

[TheWordFactory]

I'm always intrigued by the idea that the seriously posh are terribly low key about cash.

I mean, really? They may have an old landrover to mooch around the etstae, but it's not likely to be their only car.

But even if it were true, how many seriously posh people do we think there are? No where near enough to fill up public/private schools.And the middle classes with their old Volvos simply can't afford it any longer.

Like it or lump it, there are people with wonga in these schools and they may like to spend it. It's not a crime .

But should that stop anyone without that much cash from attending? Nah.

[Thenapoleonofcrime]

Bunbaker I got into Cambridge at a time when there were few comp students there- yes, I did feel out of place at times, but I soon found friends and I don't wish for one minute to take back what was an exceptional standard of education. It literally changed my life to go there and do well. I would pay the price of 'not quite fitting in' (which most students were worried about anyway, in terms of anything from looks, most fancied, being stylish, people richer, people swankier, people new/old money) any day of the week.

If you self-limit in that kind of way it can be very detrimental.

[TheWomanTheyCallJayne]

I wonder if it's because the rich never have to really worry about money so it doesn't factor much.
I've always noticed it's the rich who say money doesn't buy happiness. Probably because they've not had sleepless nights about it or arguments with their partner about it or worried how to feed or clothe their children.

[ChocolateWombat]

Tbh I think that you are either a person who is concerned about having less than others or not, and having kids at private school has nothing to do with that worry - it is a state of mind.

So I have friends with kids in state schools who spend a lot of time worrying that others have bigger houses, newer cars etc etc. Their son spends a lot of time talking. About what others have that he doesn't and also about how many bedrooms their homes have - strikes me as odd from a 9 year old boy. I also have friends with their kids in private schools who are possibly the poorest there, but who are not phased by it in the slightest and neither are their kids, even when they go to lavish parties, but don't have the same type of events when it is their own birthday.

I really think some people will feel 'poor' or inferior regardless and often unwittingly pass that attitude onto their kids. When the parents are not bothered about it, the kids don't seem to be either.

I think that if you want to send your kids to independent schools you need to be able to pay the fees and have something for a few extras, but don't need to feel that they need to attend every activity and trip available. Ask the school for activities and proposed trips,with costings. Our private school send those out as a matter or course. I budget for a weekly music lesson (perhaps half the kids have these) and will be paying for a residential trip in years 5 and 6 (around £300 each) but they won't be going skiing or on the rugby tours to Barbados.
As for things like lavish parties and socialising - well there have been a few, which have been fab for the children to attend, but most are having the bog standard bowling or swimming type parties, or games at home. The kids seem happy to go to whatever is offered.
For kids and parents, being friendly, generous (in a non-monetary sense) and a nice person wins more friends than having lots of money. Having a big sense of inferiority over money is a turn-off in my book, as is being a show-off about it.

[Tiredemma]

My DS1 has recently been awarded a sports scholarship and assisted bursary at a private school. I had been anxious about 'keeping up with the Jones' however at a recent meet up at his rugby match with some other parents its clear that not all are dripping in mega amounts of disposable income.

He doesn't seem to be overly concerned with being one of the 'poorer' ones- although we do have foreign holidays (and DP's dad own a chalet in Morzine which seemed to make their ears prick up).

Ive just picked him up from school in my little Citroen C1- plenty of other 'non flashy' cars on the car park.

[Wantsunshine]

At my Dd's private school I really couldn't tell you who had money and who didn't. I guess the only way I could find out if go on Zoolpa and see how much their house is worth. But I just don't care. Yes, she has gone to play dates in some amazing homes but also in flats. I think one of her friends mums is a nurse and I guess that doesn't come with a huge salary.
Maybe we are just lucky and there is a real mix and no snobs that I have come across. Most seem to be wearing either jeans or work clothes at drop off.

[ladeedad]

A lot of upperclass, truly posh people don't have that much cash to splash. Look at the Fulfords, they're treading water just to keep their ancestral pile fron ruin.

[CHJR]

Hear, hear, Jayne. The one sure way to tell who's rich is to notice who pretends "money doesn't matter." Of course it matters. It's just not everything.