Private v state school

[Beautifulbabyboy]

Right this thread is not what you think, it is NOT about which is better blah blah....

However, I have been talking to my friends, who are a mixed bunch some have kids going to state school some have kids going to private school. There seems to be an over-riding concern by those who are sending their kids to state schools, that even if they could afford the private school fees they still wouldn't be able to "keep with the Jones's".... And would feel uncomfortable re kids parties/what car they drive etc....

This hadn't crossed my mind... I don't care if my family is the richest or poorest at what ever school they end up going to. AIBU? Would this bother you?

[Greengrow]

My children never want to go on all kinds of exciting school trips I'd love them to do and can afford, at their private schools. One did a rugby trip to Italy and said it was theft of his half term. Their school also does a swap with schools in I think China and Singapore - wonderful opportunity, but they aren't interested. So don't assume everyone is going on all the trips and also don't assume those not going are not going because of money. We do go on some reasonably holidays as a family anyway so may be mine just feel they enjoy those and those are enough.

[MiddleAgedandConfused]

Are you really going to allow what people you don't know yet may or may not think about you dictate your choices in life?

[iseenodust]

Another one here teaching her DS that we won't be attempting to keep up with any Jones families. DS goes to an independent but we are up north and it's all very down to earth. About 1/3rd of the year didn't go on the optional school trip to France in the holidays. Most parents work as doctors, lawyers, accountants, no proper 'posh'. [cgrin]

[sparechange]

manina
Can I give a slightly different take on that...
My brother was in the rugby team, and they had tours to South Africa, Barbados and Japan. But his contribution for his place was pro rata'd to his overall bursary, so he got a big discount, and then there was an additional fund if parents couldn't make up the remainder.

And I was really into riding, so started off riding the school's horses (yes, they had their own riding school on the grounds). The first hour a week was free as part of PE lessons, and any subsequent hours were paid for.
We lived in a v rural village, and a horse breeder who lived nearby retired and sold us a horse very cheaply (think a few hundred pounds instead of a few thousand), and I was able to take her to school and keep her at the stables for free, because they used her for the PE lessons. I then got to ride her for free the rest of the time, so didn't have to pay anything, unless I wanted to enter shows at the weekends.

[dietcokeisgreat]

For complex reasons, my sister went to a private secondary that was 90% boarding. She was a day girl as it was local and my parents couldnt have afforded boarding anyway. I was at the local comp. i remember her moaning endlessly about how poor we were (comfortable middle class family actually who were very lucky with nice house, foreign holiday in summer, no objective needs unfulfilled, loving parents etc) and how all her friends were better off. You know, £50 a week spending money, designer clothes , endless skiing trips etc et c. She totally lost her real life perspective. It has returned now, but it took some time!! She didn't seem to appreciate going to a good school thwt was academically strong, amazing facilities, really nuturing and the rest.

[Theoretician]

I was on bursaries and scholarships at a private secondary school. It was a coeducational boarding school. I used to get most of my school uniform from a second-hand "shop" run by one of the housemasters wives. I remember once walking towards a girl (I fancied) and she burst out laughing at the site of me in shorts a couple of sizes to big for me. It didn't bother me much.

The only time I felt like a bit of a loser was when almost everyone else was allowed home to visit their parents for a half-term long weekend, and I was in an empty hostel on my own. This was an issue of distance rather than poverty though. My parents were a 24-hour train trip away, so I wouldn't see them at all within a three-month-long school term. (Mind you there was someone else whose parents were two days/countries away by train, and he'd been away from his parents for three months at a time since he started primary school. He was looked after on the train by an older pupil from the same country.)

[Takingthemickey]

It may be easier in secondary school and perhaps London day academic schools. There are lots of trips but it is usually a range and there may be some you can do e.g trips to France and others you can't do like the skiing trip. These are not compulsory and space is limited so only a minority of Kids are going anyway. From reading on MN these are issues that state schools have too.

However, let's be honest. If you can afford fees you are not poor.

[maninawomansworld]

Pretty much all my family have been through private schools and they do generally assume that you are relatively well off.
It's the things like school trips. I was captain of the cricket team for our year, right from year 7 through until 6th form so I went on all the tours. While optional, as a member of the team there was much pressure to go (and I wanted to). We didn't go to Kent or Yorkshire or wherever though, we went to Barbados, Australia, India and played kids from similar backgrounds in those countries.
My sister particularly loved the horse riding and having ridden from a young age anyway, she quickly took advantage of the school taking the better riders out with the local hunt - but anyone who has done any hunting will know that 2 or more horses can be a good idea if you're out for the whole day. All the other girls has them so my sister was bought a second horse one Christmas.

At one point my parents had 3 of us at private schools simultaneously. One year the bill for school trips alone came in at over £10k and that was 20 years ago. It was amazing and I loved it, I will be giving my boys the same (if they want it) but it wasn't cheap.

So to answer the original question no, YANBU, the pressure is massive.

There is no easy answer. If you can afford some of the extra curricular stuff then so long as you choose wisely where to spend your money, your kids will thank you for it as the experiences and opportunities that come their way will shape them for the rest of their lives.
The stuff about what car you turn up in, or the postcode you live in is all nonsense though.

[skylark2]

Most of my DCs' friends' mothers work - university town, they tend to be academics. Not all. One of DD's friends is having a marriage arranged and is entirely sanguine about it at present at least (she's going to university first). I had a friend at uni who was told something similar and then discovered she'd been lied to. She went out the bedroom window and never spoke to her family again. I made sure DD gave friend our address and knows that if she ever needs to she can turn up on our doorstep.

" I would not want my children in an environment where children or teachers think a woman's place in the home not the board room or a hospital doing surgery."

Gawd no. I did grow up in that sort of environment. It was a rural state comprehensive. My mum (a teacher) was the only mother I knew that worked. I love that DD thinks its completely normal for mums to be professors or run companies or be dentists.

[Greengrow]

Lawsv, fascinating. My boys are the opposite. Some their friends' mothers don't work because they are Asian, married at 15 presumably in Pakistan or arranged marriage here in the UK and my sons are feminists and are not slow in pointing out the sexism of their friends' homes (I hope as politely as teenage boys are to each other when relaxing....) Surely it's a mark of success if you have a high earning power couple set of parents with both very clever and working hard and well known rather than the boring old man works and woman at home doing the cleaning housewife/unemployed living off male earnings set up? I would not want my children in an environment where children or teachers think a woman's place in the home not the board room or a hospital doing surgery.

[Miggsie]

It depends on the school - I visited some private schools that were not welcoming and very conscious of money and position. We visited others where 50% of the kids had assistance or bursaries of some kind.

DD is at a school with some seriously rich kids, some not so rich, and some, like us, who spend all their cash on school fees.

No one cares, although DD was a bit fazed when she visited a house that had 9 bathrooms. Our entire house would have fitted in their kitchen.

Strangely though, the other kids and parents don't care - in fact, our house is considered "cool" as we have a pet chicken.

DD doesn't go on the expensive school trips. We always knew that we couldn't afford them. No one is sneered at if they don't go - it's all optional. School also organises £6 - £35 trips and activities which we can afford. If people sneered at us because we are of a lower income I wouldn't have put DD in the school!

Friends have children in state school and take 5 holidays a year - so you can end up in a state school with some seriously materially spoiled kids!

[newgirl]

What surprised me at our local private school is a family I know had to contribute for things like netball trips - as they played other private schools this meant @40 a trip! To play netball! It's one thing not to go on the ski trip but another not to be in the netball team due to cost

[ChickenMe]

I think it depends on your child's character.

I was a non rich kid at a private school (assisted place). The teachers definitely showed favouritism towards the rich kids so that is something to be aware of.

Some of the behaviour displayed from the rich girls towards the more disadvantaged pupils was abhorrent. And being non-rich you will stand out. It depends if your child minds. (I developed a fuck you attitude-oops).

Even now the ignorance remains- I went to a reunion. I work in the public sector-lets say I'm a social worker-and received the comment "oh you're a (social worker), how funny!".

I think I was lucky in being a rather strong minded and outspoken individual. The experience made me a better person; being on the receiving end of snobbery and discrimination taught me never to behave like that and I learned pretty quick to stand up for myself!

On the other hand selective private schools will push your child academically. So in that respect I did well out of it.

[ChocolateWombat]

Absolutely agree that parental attitude is key in determining child's attitude towards those with more And less than themselves.
If you as a parent are bothered about this stuff, then independent school probably isn't for you. No doubt your concerns will affect your children and they will hold the same concerns as you. If you aren't bothered by wealth issues, your kids probably won't be either and independent school should be fine.
It depends where you get your value and self worth from really. If it is from what you earn, the size of hour house and newness and flashiness of your car, life will generally be disappointing....because whether in private schools or not, there will always be people with more than you. It is probably just more evident in many private schools.

[sparechange]

I was one of the 'poor' kids at a private school, where some of the rich kids were dropped off by helicopter, flew first class, were bought fancy cars for their 17th birthdays etc
But it was never an issue for me. My school gave a large number of scholarships and bursaries, plus huge fee discounts to teachers, so there was never any sort of issue. In fact, you were far more likely to be judged on your sporting ability, academic ability or looks than how much money your parents had.
The popular kids were the captains of sports teams who spent their summers training, and pretty girls who made their own clothes, rather than the ones who were dripping in designer gear or spent all their holidays in Barbados.

I imagine that is even more true now, where more children are having their fees paid by grandparents.

[andmyunpopularopionis]

It's only an issue if you let it be. My kids have not been on a holiday never mind a foreign holiday. DS sometimes mentions that he is the only one who has not been on a plane but thats life. He'll survive. I'm not one for keeping up with the Joneses but have also found that attitude more common in dd's state high school than their prep.

Not everyone in private school is wealthy. There are a lot of grandparents etc. paying fees.

[Lasvegas]

We have as many luxuries as the other parents at our private school, possibly more as we have one child and nearly all her peers have siblings. But I am only mum who works full time.

This has caused lots of why do you have to work and all the other mums of my friends don't? She gets cross that her father does not earn as much as other dads, and it aggrieved on my behalf that I' have' to work.

Have tried to say people also work to use their brain and interaction but falls on deaf ears. DD is going to marry a rich man! who wont a die or b divorce her.

[Greengrow]

Also some people who appear to have money are spending money they don't have and some who don't seem so well off are very careful and just don't flash the cash around. In a recent divorce judgement the court called the very very very rich couple the "swatch couple" as despite the wealth which they most spent on their charitable foundation they were just not interested in flashy showy offy expensive cars.

I think it depends on the child too. Until quite recently one of my sons was quite happy with the cheapest mobile phone I have ever seen. I liked that. Most other boys in his class had a smart phone. He has just taken over his brother's old mobile so now has a smart phone but certainly none of mine are into showing off brands or whatever. He was the only teenager going on a school trip in shorts until recently too - I like that eccentricity and not feeling you have to be the same as everyone else, nothing to prove.

Always when they go out with friends I ask if they need to pay for that friend (as despite its being a private school a lot of the children are not from very well off families - you might have six family members working day and night in their restaurant to fund the one set of fees etc) and it is good to make our children aware that others may not have what ours take for granted. On the way to school today mine mentioned seeing a boy they know. One asked his brother why that boy takes the bus not the tube and the answer was because the bus is cheaper than the London underground even if only going 3 stops.

[Hoppinggreen]

I got a scholarship to a private school and I never felt as if I was the poor kid
My friends were a mixed bunch, some were wealthy but others weren't.
It mght depend on the school I suppose but there was never any feeling that I had the wrong trainers or anything like that.
We couldn't have afforded school fees but we did live in a largish detached house ( which was knackered) and an ok car so I'm not sure if that made a difference.
The interesting thing was that there was certainly no ostentation, the richest families were usually the least flash- it was the ones with a bit of money who liked to chuck it around!!

[Tiredemma]

erzsebet

great post.

[wobblyweebles]

Meh, my kids are at state school and we are way poorer than an awful lot of their friends.

[yummumto3girls]

I think feeling like that is down to the parents and not the children. My DD has just moved from private school (moved house). Yes there were some wealthy children there, but also a lot of relatively unwealthy children, whose parents had sacrificed their bigger houses and better cars to enable their children to go to a private school. There was always the group that went skiing every year, those that had the extra tennis lessons etc but on the whole there was absolutely no looking down on anyone, from the kids point of view that's just the way it was.

[Erzsebet]

My DD is a scholarship and bursary girl at a public school and our house is smaller than the potting shed in some of her friend's parents holiday homes (I'm not counting the London house or the 'estate') and probably at the same level of decor.
If that sort of thing is going to bother you or your DC I don't think the independent sector is for you.
A couple of years back for our holiday we did a week in a tent in Devon for £150 all in. Some of her friends spend more than that on a Saturday shopping trip but as DDs facebook page testifies a girl in a bikini on a sunny beach in Devon looks much the same as a girl in a bikini on a sunny beach in Bali. Its your personality that carries you through in this life. If you're insecure and inhibited or intimidated by wealth or power it's not going to work.
We're not consumerist and DD values good relationships over stuff. That's not to say there have not been moments or people who have disappointed her - you get those anywhere and actually life isn't fair, some people will have more than you and brag about it. Get over it.
So if you're a keep up with the (lord and lady) jones sort of person and your DC are too you'd probably hate it. But we've learned not to project your insecurities on your DC - parents can only have so much influence over friendships mainly at infant/junior level. We're not looking to make new friends of their parents, we don't need the contacts for our jobs and so we don't even notice if they do clique together. We do have a little group of mums and dads that we have a glass of wine and a natter with but they're not our 'friends we're all decent folk and we mingle to be sociable for the DC.
Our DD is having a ball. Great tuition, international & UK friendships, fantastic experiences and preparation for her future professional life. So can't fault it for that. Can't say she wouldn't have got the same grades at a state school though as she's bright. I have seen the not so bright notch up a couple of grades from Ds to Bs or C's to As at gcse & alevel and I can understand why their parents have paid full whack for that.

[Gatehouse77]

The TV in the bedroom, bedtimes, screen time limits, viewing restrictions, Facebook restrictions are the most common whinges I get from my lot because we're strict about such things. They're at state school.

It would appear that parental attitude plays a big factor in how the kids deal with it. My brother's went to one of the (then) top 5 public schools and had people with multiple homes, high profile families, etc. They were not bothered about that, nor were my sister and I. My parents were far more keen on keeping our feet firmly on the ground and understanding the value of money and hard work than trying to keep up with the Jones'.

I suspect that if parents feel that way, the kids will pick up on that and it could affect how they view their peers...

[Lymmmummy]

I think it does depend on the child - and whether the private school has some bursary/ exam entry places so that perhaos there would be a small contingent of brighter/poorer children - or not - I am not for or against private schooling - but I think sometimes it can be hard on the child if parents sacrifice lots for the sake of a private school education for their child as sometimes the child cannot live upto the expectations and may feel unfair pressure against wealthier children - but I think it's driven by the child and how they are themselves