To think cyclists should allow cars to overtake them?

[Twitterqueen]

If you're cycling and you know a car is behind you and wants to overtake, should you let them / facilitate the overtake or deliberately refuse and shout 'wait' at the car? When the road ahead is straight and clear for well over half a mile, when the car has been patiently waiting for a safe, straight stretch, there is no other traffic but the road is just that little bit too narrow for the car to want to do it without some kind of affirmation from the cyclist, ie stop pedaling for a few seconds and move a bit closer into the side of the road?

The car drivers on this thread need to read the Highway Code.

It's not your right to endanger lives and kill people, no matter how much of a hurry you are in.

It's basic common sense.

I normally hate to 'pile in' but Sunna, your grasp of the law, HC and reasonableness is concerning.

I will state that I rarely if ever filter down the left side of traffic to a junction. I'd prefer to go down the right side or if its only a few cars then I'll stay in the middle of the carriageway to reserve my place in the queue.

Though sadly I suspect car drivers might not like that as they can't get past me.

But there is an argument to getting to the front so you get get in the ASL box as this makes it much safer when setting off and is the reason these boxes exist for cyclists.

Tis video shows why "hogging" the lane is important. If he'd been hogging the lane the car couldn't have nearly hit him

And another

Sunna, I don't really see what you're getting at here. I agree that coming up the inside of vehicles that could be turning, at the moment the lights change, is risky. Whether it's illegal or not, I'm on a bike and motorists don't always look, so I don't do it.

But I do not understand why you're going on about it. It's nothing to do with the OP, says nothing about cyclists, it's just an example of you seeing someone do something a bit risky once.

Once I saw a guy trying to cross the road on a blind and relatively busy corner. What a fucking idiot, men are so dumb and entitled.

ASLs/bike boxes - on my way to work there are 22 traffic lights with 12 ASLs. One morning I counted. 11 times the bike box was occupied by a car, with one of the drivers texting whilst she waited.

Yet one of the things about cyclists is that they never obey the laws of the road.

And this close pass was reported to the police and the driver got a warning letter.

When I believe a cyclist is being an idiot keeping me waiting I just remember that I'm warm and snug and sitting in a comfy chair with the radio on and they're not.

Fuck me those of you who are anti cyclists are on the whole nasty pieces of work. A few minutes delay or a life, tricky decision really

This thread is utterly depressing. Why are people such assholes?

I commute by bike in London. The majority of car drivers are fine but a minority make me really despair for humanity. Every night I have to cycle the wrong way up a one way street - that is a two way street for cyclists. There are plenty of road signs all along the street stating this. And yet every night I take my life in my hands with car drivers belting down the middle of the road, giving me no space to 'teach me a lesson' for going the wrong way, sometimes shouting out the window at me too. It's terrifying. And depressing that people can be so utterly moronic.

sunna for absolute clarity:
Filtering is legal, cyclists do it so they can get to the front, where it is safest to be when traffic starts again. You know that green box? That's what it's for.

I'm not sure Boris' facts are correct. From the NHS website, it says this about collisions between cyclists and vehicles:

^To understand the contributory causes to fatal cycle accidents, the Transport Research Laboratory has analysed data from 2005 to 2007.
For cyclists, the most common factors associated with fatal collisions were:
Failure to look properly – 31%
Cyclists entering road from the pavement – 17% (children are particularly prone to these types of incidents)
Loss of control – 17%
Failure to judge other person’s path or speed – 15%
Poor turning or manoeuvring – 11%
Cyclist wearing dark clothes at night – 10%
Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility – 5%
Disobeying road signs and markings – 5%

In motorists (both cars and goods vehicles) most common contributing factors associated with fatal collisions with cyclists were:
Failure to look properly – 44%
Passing too close to cyclist – 19%
Careless or reckless driving – 12%
Poor turning or manoeuvring – 11%
Failure to judge other person’s path or speed – 11%
Disobeying road signs and markings – 4%
On average, there were 1.82 contributory factors associated with cyclists involved in a fatal collision and 1.60 contributory factors for drivers.
This suggests that cyclists are slightly more to blame for fatal collisions.^

Sloppy statistics are a pet hate of mine but I also think they're especially dangerous when discussing cycling and driving because there seems to be a latent assumption that car drivers are mainly to blame if cyclists are hurt and I can't actually find any statistics to bear that out. As long as we keep perpetuating that myth, it means cyclists don't need to take responsibility because we're telling them that usually they're not to blame. The stats say that fault lies on both sides, depending on the research there's a difference of a few percent either way. It means all road users need to take responsibility.

I really do think the best way to keep cyclists safe (because they are horribly vulnerable) is to introduce more cycle lanes and have a road-using test. I don't understand why cyclists think they'll innately make the right decisions about how to cycle in busy traffic. As I said in a previous post, there was an interesting radio discussion with cyclists in London and a cycle safety group, and a high percentage of the cyclists didn't know the best way to keep safe on the road. We should all be doing as much as possible to ensure that isn't the case, because yes cyclists are more vulnerable but if a car is in a collision with the cyclist it's no comfort at all that it's more than likely the cyclist was to blame.

viva - the highway code says the cyclist should pull over that's who.

2010 fatal accidents in London where a cyclist and vehicle collided. 60% were the fault of the vehicle, 10% undetermined and 30% the fault of the cyclist.

TFL report

Filtering is legal, cyclists do it so they can get to the front, where it is safest to be when traffic starts again. You know that green box? That's what it's for.

There was no green box. Who said anything about a green box? It was a line of traffic at a T junction. Idiot cyclist (no box whatsoever) tried to cycle straight ahead despite the car he was on the inside of indicating left for a couple of minutes, while waiting for the lights to change. The cyclist should maybe have noticed that as he snuck up the inside.

Sunna, your grasp of the law, HC and reasonableness is concerning.

In this case it coincides with the local constabulary's grasp, so I'm happy with that.

maddening

Really?

Would you care to tell me which number rule says a cyclist must pull over?

www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82/overview-59-to-71

Sunna, I'd totally agree the cyclist was daft. However the police were wrong. Its the motorists responsibility to ensure its safe to turn left.

Thanks, Viva . London's stats are obviously different from the rest of the country.

APlace

This is where I got my figures from. For adult cyclists it is far more often the fault of the driver. The other thing of course is that if a cyclist does something stupid they might kill themselves. If a driver is careless they might kill a cyclist but not themselves. A car driver has far more responsibility to avoid harming others as they are the ones driving around in the big metal box.

I only overtake a cyclist if it is safe to do. I would not expect them to move over to 'give me room'. It is precisely because I see impatient drivers putting cyclists in danger that I refuse to ride a bike on the road.

OP, imagine that you are doing your driving test when you're thinking of pulling out when there is not enough room. Realise that you would fail if you did it.

I'm not a cyclist and no one in my family is (DP mountain bikes but very rarely rides on a road) but seriously, use some common sense! You hit a car by passing too close and the likelihood is you will dent the car. Hit a cyclist as the likelihood is you will seriously injure them, or even kill them! I can't believe some of the attitudes on here towards cyclists. Why should they move over to allow you to pass? Have some fucking patience and pass when it's safe!

There's no other road user who is expected to pull over to let others pass. The onus is on the vehicle that wants to pass to wait until safe to do so.

This doesn't change because its a bike.

Regardless of this I think on the majority of narrow roads a cyclist will pull over to allow a car past.

Drivers ought to be grateful of this rather than moaning about cyclists.

Rule 169 of the Highway Code states you must not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

Totally disagree that a cyclist would be liable to anything for signalling a car to overtake! The onus is always on the driver to ensure they are safe. Same if someone flashes you out.

This is one of the most depressing threads I've read on MN for a while - we're a cycling mad family and my two DC (aged 5 & 6) are already keen and competent cyclists, but reading some of the ignorant and nasty comments on this thread makes me think we're actually putting their lives in quite significant danger by encouraging them to share the roads with some of you.

It is extremely rare that you are going to be held up by a cyclist for any length of time in a GENUINE emergency rather than just cos you're an impatient twat who thinks you rule the road because you drive a car.

In traffic there is also a lot of jealously from car drivers who can't bear the fact that a cheap two wheeler can travel faster then their tossy great motor and will act accordingly.

I'm assuming that none of you encourage your children to cycle, or if you do you won't mind if an impatient arsehole knocks them off their bike in order to get to the shops 30 seconds earlier than planned?

I despair.