aibu re paying builder in cash?

[mutternutter]

Please advise me. Renovating a house for me and DC. On my own. Went via check workman type website. Got three quotes ect
Picked builder. Checked his work ect. First job done. He text me a few days ago wanting paying in cash. I was a not shocked as thought this was a no no.
Job finished yesterday.2_pm he called me asking for cash as needed to pay workers. Told him was paying by.building soc.check. He wanted cash. Then asked for it to be paid into his bank Acc asap. Like in next half hour.
Wasn't happy when told couldn't due to school run. He then text his bank details and not happy could not do it until this morning. He wanted to know what time I could do it.
Told him need receipt and work guarantee. He email and txt re cash.between 11pm and 1.30am. First text on phone his at 7am today. He would email and then text to say he had sent email. He has only done this re cash. Never did it before. He also has key to property but locks being changed.anyway. is this wrong? Muddy headed due to my mh issues
Need.to know or advice needed please. Does anyone have experience of building trade or am I buhelp have no one to help.or advise me
Tia

[raltheraffe]

I would advise that you go as soon as possible to check the work has been done satisfactory and then pay as soon as you get the guarantee.
I run a business and still have outstanding invoices from September, some going through small claims.
It is horrible when you have done work, fair and square and people do not pay up.
I still have to pay out my staff on time. I have to pay out for materials and equipment upfront.
The ones that annoy me the most are customers who think an invoice is a starting point for negotiation. I would love to try that on in a high street shop and see how far I got. The invoice is the invoice, pay it or go to court.

[Quitelikely]

Pay him what you owe him! How would you feel if you didn't get your wages yesterday because someone didn't like your preferred payment method!

Folk like you are a nightmare for small companies who are just managing to survive!

[TheAlias]

Yes, teacher the onus is absolutely on the buyer to do appropriate checks to ensure tax is being paid. In the industry I work in several companies have received large fines for employing people who weren't paying tax. ATM, AFAIK, it's only corporates and public bodies who have been fined, but I don't think it's right for individuals to turn a blind eye because it gets them a good deal and they think they can get away with it.

[museumum]

I'm self employed. I totally understand.

But. Doing work on an empty property you can't just call the owner at 2pm and say "ok I'm finished come round and look and pay right now".
And then text in the middle of the night for a transfer of money from somebody who has no way of knowing if you have done it or not!

[teacherwith2kids]

DH works in an area where knowingly - or even unknowingly, tbh - using a business that COULD be avoiding tax would cost him his accreditation and his job.

We completely gutted and re-furbished our house some years ago, and were very clear upfront with every tradesperson that we could not pay in cash for this reason. About 1 in 3 people who turned up to quote left without even looking at the work to be done.

Every tradesperson that we did use invoiced us in several stages:

1. For materials, early in the job
   
2. Regularly, at agreed intervals, as the job proceeded
   
3. At the end of the work, once it was completed
   

Almost always paid by online bank transfer, on the day of the bill. One person, who did a relatively small job taking only a couple of days, preferred cheque. Helped that we were either at the property every day, or after a few weeks for the water and gas works to be completed, in residence, so inspecting the woprk was a formality.

It is probably completely unrelated, but every tradeperson we used was excellent, had no problem at all coming back for any snagging issue, and were then, and are now, established local businesses that continue to thrive through excellent word of mouth reputation. Several of our '1 in 3 who didn't quote' have long been out of business, so we are very glad we didn't use them.

[raltheraffe]

@simontowers

Tax dodging is not good for small traders as the honest joes lose out to people on the fiddle and that is not fair.

[KERALA1]

The clients that annoy me are the ones that ask for a quote with the plaintive caveat "we haven't got much money". Shall I try that next time I go into the white company and see what response I get?!

[alemci]

tbh when i had building work done i paid cash and straight away. They all wanted cash.

[cookoos]

my DH is self employed plasterer & always asks for cash or instant bank transfer as previously said, he has to pay for materials & his labourer. everything goes through the books at the end of the year though. cash is perfectly fine!!

[diddl]

I think when the builder first asked for cash the OP should have told him then that she was intending to pay by cheque or transfer.

Perhaps then he could have asked for a part payment.

[simontowers2]

I agree. Personally i cant understand why the Op hasnt planned up front for this and had the cash ready for when job finished. selfish.

[LovleyRitaMeterMaid]

As someone who has spent many a night tossing and turning after being at the mercy of clients deciding when they'll pay up I say yabu, pay the man! It won't just be him, there'll be subbies and others waiting for cash, he'll have paid out for the materials.

[simontowers2]

I always pay tradesmen in cash on the dot, assuming work is satisfactory. Frankly i dont care if it's a tax dodge. If filthy rich fuckers can avoid tax via tax avoidance schemes, why shouldn't small traders?

[mausmaus]

I never pay workmen by cash.
always banktransfer (after inspection, the day after usually). one dodgy experience too many -workmen turning up again to demand cash despite being paid already.

[AutumnshadesofGold]

I'm on my phone so can't chk who mentioned employees being lucky to rely on a regular wage but wtf!! My dh works in a 3man building firm - if clients don't pay - how the hell can his boss pay him??
Don't get me started on the most recent clients (know them through school) who went on holiday without leaving the money as promised - & then had the nerve to ask if we had enjoyed our October holidays!!! No we feckin didn't as DH hadn't been paid. Tradesmen aren't a form of overdraft - you wouldn't walk into tesco & ask to pay in 6nths time would you?
Sorry rant over & not really aimed at you OP!

[frankbough]

We take 50% deposit on delivery of materials and invoice on the day the job is completed, customers can pay cash (which is legal tender), cheque (pita) or by bank transfer.. For smaller jobs we are thinking about using a pdq machine/ mobile app to help cash flow..
All customers are given detailed quotes, invoices and contracts. Non paying customers and slow payers are given notice of action letters and then pursued by the courts and in some cases private debt collectors..

I also run a business connected to the music industry payment terms for booking artists are large deposits and full payment upfront before performance dates..

[averylongtimeago]

We have a small family building business, cash flow can be a nightmare! We say from the outset that we invoice fortnightly on a % of the quoted price for work done and materials on site (customer not asked to pay for more than they have had) and we expect payment by bank transfer within 7 days. We also employ subbies (ie plasterers or plumbers) who expect payment regularly - why should we pay overdraft fees because a customer won't pay on time?? We are not barratt homes - just ordinary working people, we don't make mega bucks so why should we give free credit and subsidise late payers?

If we are not paid, we still have to pay the subbies and the merchants, the worry and stress caused can be awful. Imagine if your salary payment depended on the whim of your employer every month.....We he pay, will it be late, will he just not pay at all or decide to give you a pay cut as he has run out of money??

We have one at the moment, owes us several thousand, they have overspent and are having problems with their mortgage, apparently. No problems with the work (I have asked) we just have to wait. 3 months now and counting....thin Christmas here

[slithytove]

Interesting. We are having a kitchen fitted this week. I paid 1/3 upon receipt of invoice when we agreed dates and quotes. I will pay 1/3 upon receipt of invoice when all of the units are delivered. At that point, ripping out, plastering and flooring will have already been completely. I will pay the final 1/3 upon receipt of invoice and satisfactory completion (E.g. Contractor and I walk around and snagging completed) of the project.

This will be by bacs which I consider to be cash. As opposed to credit.
OP I would do bacs in your position.

[Frogisatwat]

I know its been said but I much prefer cash. All goes through the books. I pay a fortune on materials. Often using my own money rather than the businesses if cash flow is poor. I've been eking out food and rationing heat (meters) and waiting on huge payments to clear..

[DoJo]

I think you should have mentioned that you would prefer to pay by cheque when he originally asked for cash, as that would have given him a chance to factor in processing time. If you pay by cheque several days after the job has finished, then adding on the time for the cheque to clear can cause a cash-flow problem and annoy workers on whom he is relying to stick with him.

He cannot provide a receipt until he has been paid, and I can understand him wanting to hold off on the guarantee until he has been paid as that is the only leverage he has now that he has completed the work.

He ha supplied time, labour and materials in good faith of prompt payment, so I think you need to get the cash together asap and possible apologise for the misunderstanding if you think you might want to use him again.

[WooWooOwl]

It the builders business if he's dodging tax, nothing to do with you.

But it would definitely put me off using this builder because he's being so pushy, a decent business should be able to wait a couple of weeks let alone a couple of hours to be paid, and if they can't I'd be worried that they weren't reputable and wouldn't have the funds to complete the job. Never pay workmen until they have done a good job, and definitely don't pay the final balance to builders until after they have had a chance to do the snagging, which shouldn't happen until at least a couple of weeks after the main work has finished.

[Squeegle]

Can people be a little kinder? OP has already said she's muddy headed due to MH issues.

A bit of constructive help would be better than some of the censorious comments in this thread. Have a heart folks.

[gobbynorthernbird]

As the builder had asked for cash before the job was finished, and the OP didn't say anything at the time, the OP is being VVU.

[MrsPiddlewink]

doh... *our!

[MrsPiddlewink]

My DH is a plasterer. We invoice on a Friday and state 7 days in our terms.

On large jobs he makes it clear up front that staged payments are required for material purchases and contractor costs.

This is the difference between a normal employee and a self employed builder. Laughable that you've made the comparrison. Do you have to fork out £1000+ on steels mid month? Pay a labourers wages at the end of the week?

That being said, my DH would never hassle a customer for payment, unless it was particularly overdue. It often leaves us in tight spots, but it's not right to phone/email late at night demanding cash.

Cash is always preferable, and often yhe price for cash will be cheaper because it's a bloody nightmare waiting for a cheque to clear or having to withdraw funds to pay workmen.

Currently we are waiting on over £1000. Just over £600 of this is from a contractor who is awaiting payment from a customer, the rest is a cheque that got sent out unsigned, so we are waiting on another. Both jobs were completed a month ago. It's a right pain.... and has meant we missed out on booking a Christmas treat for the kids because are cash flow was so restricted. I can imagine for someone with even tighter finances it might have meant no food shopping.