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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

..to think it's not too much to ask school staff to wipe a 4yr old's nose??

50 replies

abneysporridge · 16/10/2014 19:35

My ds2 started reception in sept and is a little July baby with slight learning difficulties - needless to say, he struggles to blow/wipe his own nose. The teacher pulled me aside at pick up today and said the other children are starting to isolate him and call him gross because he has snot coming down his nose, particularly at lunch time when they're trying to eat, and maybe I should take him to the doctor in case he has an infection. He has a cold but is otherwise well - no fever/ fatigue / sluggishness or headaches etc, but I played ball and managed to get him seen tonight by a lovely lady doctor. She gave him a thorough inspection and was happy there was no infection present, so I'm happy to send him back to school tomrw. The teacher was insinuating that I should keep him off school until his mucus clears up...but if he's not suffering in any other way I don't see why he should miss out on learning. It's simply a case of getting him through this cold, and hopefully by the time he gets the next one, he'll be better at sorting out his own nose. In the meantime, can't they wipe the fecking thing for him?! I know it's a bit gross but Jesus he's barely 4 yrs old - I can't wave a wand and give him nose wiping skills (would that I could!), and because he's a slow learner and poss on the autistic spectrum it will take him a little longer to figure it out, just as it does most things.
Am I way out of line here thinking that they should be more patient???

OP posts:

Aeroflotgirl · 16/10/2014 20:37

Oh right they do wipe his nose. Just keep showing him what to do. You said that he us beginning to understand.

hiccupgirl · 16/10/2014 20:41

I don't get what the problem is now you've said they do wipe his nose and try to guide him to do it....

I'm sure she just told you about the other children's reaction because she is concerned like you are that he could become isolated and wants to make sure everyone is trying to help him learn how to do it himself.

Penfold007 · 16/10/2014 20:44

So you are helping your little man manage his nose, the teacher and TA are also helping - so far so good.

Sadly children are cruel and get grossed out by things like snot - not a lot anyone can do about that.

Just keep up with the excellent job you are already doing.

RandallFloyd · 16/10/2014 20:52

No YANBU, he's 4!
I don't think the SN has anything to do with it. How on earth can the teachers and TAs know it is such an issue that it's causing real social problems and just stand by? That's just awful.

I had the same issue with my DS at the beginning of the year (although he is a year younger and there were issues with nappy changing too) but they changed their tune very quickly when I requested a meeting.

What I did was ask for a meeting with DS's teacher, the Early Years Supervisor and the Head Teacher. There's no way any of them can say, on record, that it's acceptable to not help a small child wipe their nose.

Get your Tiger-Mum head on and get down there!

Purplepoodle · 16/10/2014 20:53

Perhaps you can suggest as part of his lunch routine that he goes to the toilet and wipes his nose (whether he needs it or not) before having his lunch. My ds2 has s&l issues with dribbling. We are contestant lay have to remind him to wipe his chin, be aware he is drooling. It will take a while but he will get there. Never knew children could be so mean at reception age.

RufusTheReindeer · 16/10/2014 20:55

Lunchtime supervisor here

Stand in the playground as one of two, between 30 and 120 children running round at anyone time

So yeah, it's dead easy to see if someone's nose needs a wipe

Please be assured that if any of us see something like that we either get them a tissue or wipe it ourselves (I send them into the first aider as there are no tissues on the playground)

FoodieToo · 16/10/2014 20:59

I actually don't think this is the responsibility of the teacher. Yes she could remind him to do it but she definitely should not have to do it.

He needs to learn to do it himself.

Original poster

abneysporridge · 16/10/2014 21:01

Sorry yeah I should have been clearer about his teacher - she has been wiping his nose and reinforcing his learning of how to do it himself when she can - she was just the bearer of bad news of the fact the lunch time staff don't want to do it and the other kids are grossed out by him. I think I'm cross about the insinuation that I'm merrily letting him suffer the snot and not teaching him how to look after himself - obviously that's the last thing I want as it's fucking hard work and I'd love him to be able to do everything himself. And also the almost 'victim blaming' situation of it - his nose causes kids to tease him so he should sort it out, rather than those kids should learn about being kind and non-teasey. I am very protective of my little spesh as you can tell!

OP posts:

Pigriver · 16/10/2014 21:12

The teacher never said she wouldn't do it. She just questioned whether he was ill!? Am I missing something here? I am a teacher and will often tell a child to wipe their nose but I would never do it for them unless they had high needs SEN and needed support in all areas of self care. His SN can't be that bad that he can't run a tissue across his face every now and then. As others have said, he can toilet himself so nose wiping shouldn't be beyond him. You need to support him to be independent in his self care skills.

Fixerupperz · 16/10/2014 21:25

His SN cant be thatbad that he cant run a tissue across his nose.... Thank heavens youre not my dd's teacher.

Pigriver · 16/10/2014 21:34

OP has made it clear that his needs aren't significant enough to warrant a intimate care plan. Obviously if this was the case them the school would be obligated to help him in this way. It actually sounds as if the classroom staff are being very supportive and it's a lunch problem.
Unfortunately little ones can be a bit mean and snot and trumping always cause giggling etc.
I don't think the school are victim blaming rather pointing out that there is an issue and there are steps that can be taken e.g. Teaching him self care skills to reduce this.

Original poster

abneysporridge · 16/10/2014 21:46

What is an intimate care plan? Does it only apply to very dependant SN kids? Tbh I feel like I'm floundering in the dark with this stuff as ds1 is super bright and independent so I don't really have a precedent for what ds2 should be doing/having/be entitled to, I'm just going with the flow. The school have been fairly hands off thus far but I suppose it is still early days.

OP posts:

MidniteScribbler · 16/10/2014 21:52

I think that it would be hard for lunchtime staff to spend their time monitoring the nose of one student, especially when they are off and running. You can direct a child to a tissue if you see it or they come up to you, but you can't follow one child around when there is a whole playground of children and the constant issues to manage.

SuburbanRhonda · 16/10/2014 22:15

A care plan is a clear statement of what a named child needs doing, who does it and how. An example would be a child who has severe excema and who needs to have cream applied several times a day all over their body.

An intimate care policy is written guidelines issued by the LA about how to go about putting the care plan into practice where there is an intimate care element to it, for example, if a child needed a suppository.

OP, this isn't intimate care, just working out how to balance the needs of a child to be helped to wipe his own nose against the needs of 30 children brand-new to school!

naughtylist · 17/10/2014 00:36

Aww OP, my little summer born is wreaking havoc at school apparently because they keep forgetting to cover their mouth when coughing.

If my child was a few weeks younger they would only just be starting nursery. It's just very sad. I wish they would not compare them with other children, some of which are almost an entire year older.

blanklook · 17/10/2014 01:33

Does he have any prompts for doing what the others do, like toilet, wash hands, go to dining-room. His could be toilet, wash hands, wipe nose, wash hands again, go to dining-room, eat lunch, wipe nose, play, wipe nose, wash hands, back into classroom and have a 'wipe nose' prompt from the staff whenever he needs it.

blanklook · 17/10/2014 01:39

Aww OP, my little summer born is wreaking havoc at school apparently because they keep forgetting to cover their mouth when coughing.

Can you practise this every day at home until it becomes automatic? It is pretty gross for other people to be coughed on, never mind spreading germs.
You'll also find the other kids can be unpleasant to your dc, like they are with the OP's ds when he forgets to wipe his nose.

WhatKatyDidToday · 17/10/2014 02:04

FYI abneysporridge you cannot get a statement now, it is an EHC as the SEN code of practice changed with effect from 1st September 2014. If you look on your County Council website you should find information on the 'local offer' and how to start the ball rolling

WooWooOwl · 17/10/2014 09:51

If the teacher and TA are willing to help and have put in extra effort teaching your child to wipe his own nose, then it think that's as much as you can expect from the school on this particular issue.

You are being incredibly unfair to call the lunchtime staff lazy unless you have done the job in that school yourself and have seen that lunchtimes miraculously manage themselves. Im a TA in reception, and have done my fair share of lunchtimes. Instructing a child to go and get themselves a tissue is about as much as I could have done without leaving other children either unsafe, or unable to eat their lunch properly.

Why don't you send in a few boxes of tissues for the classroom and the dining room, I know we appreciate it when parents do that. If they don't, the children have to use toilet roll, or the teachers and TAs have to pay for the tissues for other people's children themselves.

You could also make sure your son has tissues in his pocket at the beginning of each day to use at lunchtime, so that all that is needed is a reminder to use them.

SuburbanRhonda · 17/10/2014 17:04

Does your school not buy tissues out of its budget, woo?

We do. They're not top of the range ones, just a basic box in every classroom (and in the meeting room, and the HT's office, because we have had tearful parents in both rooms).

ArkhamOffett · 17/10/2014 17:17

I've been a Welfare Assistant and a pack of tissues are part of the equipment you need, along with scissors for the Dreaded Frubes.
It doesn't matter how short staffed you are, it's basic care and it is lazy to see a child with a snotty nose and not do something about it, whether that's a reminder, providing a tissue or doing it yourself.

RufusTheReindeer · 17/10/2014 20:42

ark

Hate those fucking frube packets!!!

Who said that the lunchtime staff had seen this but not done anything?

I don't know any lunch staff who would leave the snot running down a child's face

EvilTwins · 17/10/2014 20:55

YABU to start this thread and then reveal that actually the teacher and the TA do help him with his nose.

Not really sure what your problem is. School staff have an awful lot of children to deal with. And I'm speaking as the mother of July born preemie twins who were also very tiny when they started school,

hazeyjane · 17/10/2014 21:12

But the teacher did state the fact the lunch time staff don't want to do it and the other kids are grossed out by him. - so he obviously needs a little extra help at lunchtime, if it is leading to him getting teased. I agree with the op saying that the onus should be on teaching the children to be kind, and not tease for things like a snotty nose.

RufusTheReindeer · 17/10/2014 22:04

hazey

I appreciate what you are saying and also how upset the OP is (and quite rightly)

But she wasn't there when all these lunchtime staff told the teacher that they wouldn't clean a snotty nose (and I know exactly how our teachers would react if I said that!!) so she doesn't know that it was said in that manner (or indeed at all)

The lunchtime staff may well have suggested that there was a problem and that it was hard to clean a child's nose in the middle of lunch service but I don't believe that all gave an outright refusal

And I'm sure that not all lunch staff teams are as good as the one I'm on...but if I refused to do snotty noses or sick or wee I'd be sacked

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