To be so angry and sad at the running down of public libraries?

[Squarepegina]

We are to be replaced with "integrated facilities" which means squashing assorted unrelated services into one place but having only one member of staff to man all the services. Result...demand for benefit sector takes all the available staff time and library service becomes a thing of the past.
I know that in lots of places libraries have closed altogether, but this is just a back door way of doing the same.
We provide family history help, information for children and homework club, run craft classes, provide local history help, public IT access, book group, as well as knowing and engaging with vulnerable and elderly people.
In one fell swoop our community will lose these services, it's so sad for future generations to not have this social public access point for information.

[blueshoes]

Marianne, I am all for central libraries that see a lot of footfall. I refuse to support local community libraries that are all but moribund.

The one at Victoria could very well be the holy grail I am looking for - my children are at an age where I would like them to have my experience at childhood which allowed me to develop a love of books.

[blueshoes]

Marianne: "Perhaps you might like to try that and then report on your experiences?"

"No doubt other people will contribute to the thread, and I'll look forward to their contributions."

I do enjoy your passive aggressive way of posting! We cannot all agree with you, I am afraid.

[Permanentlyexhausted]

Blueshoes I am all for central libraries that see a lot of footfall.

Do you really think that popularity is the only valid measurement of a public service?

Your desire to use public libraries may be limited to borrowing popular fiction, but the real value of them is in the equality of access to information they provide.

You sound disappointed in your local libraries - why are you happy to travel further instead of lobbying for a better service closer to home?

Would you feel the same about smaller local schools, healthcare facilities, etc? Should they be closed down in favour of bigger newer facilities?

[blueshoes]

There is no equality of access if no one turns up to access them. If funds are being cut and are by no means limitless, then combine 3 poor local libraries into a better run and stocked central one that will attract the footfall.

I don't believe in having a multiplicity of local libraries for "community" sake if there are no enough funds to ensure they provide a proper service and selection of books.

[MarianneSolong]

I am rather perplexed blueshoes. Your picture of three as yet unnamed libraries is so very different from the one given by Southeastdweller. As a non-Londoner, who hasn't visited its public libraries for some years, I am interested in getting a fuller picture of the services there, to see how they've responded both to cuts and to the digital age. I've heard about some much praised libraries that have opened - in Peckham for example - and hope some of the many Mumsnetters who use libraries in the city will contribute. So far, it seems to me, the majority of contributors have said that they value community library services. I think this is fairly typical for a forum where most posters have young children, who are learning to read/to become more confident readers. Children tend to like being able to go to places in their immediate neighbourhood and parents value being able to take their children to places that are free to use.

The model where I live in which the local authority's libraries are networked works well. You can borrow from any library in the city and return your book to a different library. You can reserve books held at another city library without charge. This means, for example, that people who can't - or don't wish to - travel to the large city library can access its books.

[Southeastdweller]

I forgot to mention the Peckham library which should be easy for you to get to blueshoes, if you don't live too far out in S.E. I've only been there twice but understand it's very popular. It's also one of the biggest libraries in the city. If you have the time after work then another library that I spend a lot of time in is the Barbican one, another huge library with up to date stock, very helpful staff, and a big children's section. It's open until 7.30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

My borough is Lambeth and most if not all staff have been replaced with people who aren't trained librarians, but what seems to me to be volunteers or customer service assistants, same with Camden. Self-scan hasn't come to Lambeth yet but all other libraries I go to in the city have it. Lambeth is the worst Borough for getting new items in but often it's hard to find a study space in my local library, the long opening hours haven't changed, and most computers are being used at any one time. I also see a lot of teachers or T.A's or volunteers helping kids with their reading and homework. This particular part of Lambeth has a lot of poverty and I can easily see that my local library is a lifeline for many.

[Didiusfalco]

You're in Birmingham aren't you Marianne? I totally agree with your assessment of the central library. It seems like all the money went on the building and there was none left for any books. Having spoken to our local librarian before our community library closed it seems that Birmingham have lost about 1/3 of its library staff (whether through cut hours or head count) and there will be further reductions throughout the coming year. It's a slow decline, and I think those who still have community libraries are lucky to have them.

[UrbaneLandlord]

Aren't libraries increasingly becoming an anachronism?

What I'd like to see are the visitor numbers - especially for smaller local libraries. I expect that, over the last 10 & 20 years, visitor numbers have been in terminal decline. That's why there's very little opposition to library closures,

What about scrapping all local libraries and using the money to give every household in the UK broadband internet access?

[Fayrazzled]

I think it's sad that people think physical books are on their way out. I appreciate that Kindle and other e-books make up a significant proportion of total book sales, (but total book sales have also increased since the inception of these devices- so more reading overall). Only in the past couple of weeks has there been research to show people understand a book they are reading better in a physical copy than in an e-book format; the reason being that holding the physical book in your hand helps you better place what you are reading in context (you know where you are in relation to the overall length of book) than with an e-book, where you might know the percentage read, or even the page number, but without feeling where you are. Interesting. I'd hate for all books and reading matter to be e-material.

I agree with those posters who consider a well-funded and managed library service to be a hallmark of a civilized society. The very fact these services are being downgraded indicates to me that our society is becoming more polarised. Yes, lucky you, if you can afford to buy all your family's books/newspapers/periodicals etc either online or in bricks-and-mortar shops. But not everyone is so fortunate. Libraries provided a place for everyone to be able to access information, literature, education, and entertainment. We'll be very much poorer without them.

[Fayrazzled]

Urbane- libraries are about so much more than internet access though. There's something important in a shared, community space to carry out these activities.

Probably visitor numbers are down for small, local libraries. That's because they've had their funding cut for years. People then complain the facilities are no good and people stop going. This gives politicians the evidence they have wanted all along to close the service. The same thing is happening with the NHS: under-investment leaves people complaining it's not for purpose, allowing the Government to justify privatizing the NHS and fulfilling their ideological goal of reduced state intervention overall. Depressing.

[Permanentlyexhausted]

Urbane Google is to searching and accessing information what Primark is to quality clothing. If you want something that will 'suffice' and you don't care about the quality (or accuracy) then GIYF. If you do care about accuracy and quality rather than quantity, then you'll be needing a professional librarian.

Just giving every family broadband access won't replace a library service. Will you also pay for their ebook downloads? The hardware and software? The subscriptions to access ejournals and ebooks that are behind paywalls? Pay to digitize everything that isn't currently available in a digital format?

Your argument is the sort that is made by people who have no real concept of what a library actually does or provides.

Blueshoes There is no equality of access if no one turns up to access them. Erm - equality of access means that everyone should have an equal opportunity to access information, not that everyone has to use it! I find your attitude very defeatist - close down the libraries that are underfunded, rather than fight for more funding. Do you really want to travel halfway across London to find a well-stocked library? Wouldn't you rather that there was one just on your doorstep? And even if you don't mind, what about those in society who are most disadvantaged? Those who need the library more than most? They are the ones most likely to be unable to travel miles to the one remaining central library. All of which leads me back to my original point - that we cannot be a democracy if people cannot access information to make informed choices and that we risk making society a lot more dangerous and volatile by creating an underclass who have no chance of improving their lot.

[Southeastdweller]

There was nothing wrong with the old Birmingham central library and I'm appalled £189 million of taxpayers money was spent on the new one. I've been there a few times since it was rebuilt and I'm always shocked how much empty space is on the bookshelves and how few people I see browsing the shelves and taking out books.

[MarianneSolong]

Seconded!

[Babycham1979]

It is incredibly sad that libraries are closing, but councils have no choice. Their central funding is being squeezed, while they have limits as to how much they can raise council tax by. When providing a portfolio of services that includes child protection, care of the elderly and (what remains of) education, they're faced with very tough choices.

For those that still don't understand the reality they face, I suggest having a go at Lewisham Council's Big Budget Simulator. It offers the dubious pleasure of trying to balance the Council's budget while preserving essential services. The same challenge is replicated across the Country. Do have a go, and post with your views as to exactly what should be done by councils.

I'm happy to pay higher income tax for better public services (and a reduced public debt). Are you?

[MarianneSolong]

I think one of the many things libraries do is provide an access point for those who would otherwise miss out because information and communication are changing so rapidly.

Today a man who'd be under 70 came in asking if we had telephone directories for Wales. I said no, but I'd check the catalogue to see if there were any in the city's main library. An initial search didn't turn up anything, but I asked if it was a business number he was after - as I might be able to find this via the internet. It turned out he wanted the number of an organisation in a small town there, that I could find easily via Googling.

There are a surprising amount of people who just don't do modern technology, and are becoming increasingly disempowered as a result. (I was called 'an angel' for locating the number.)