Advice on this - DP feels left out

[chumrun]

I have one brother. He is 18 months older than me and we lost our mum when we were 15 and 17.

It's fair to say our dad went a bit 'strange' after this and although this affected both of us my brother was most impacted and turned to drugs. It was a long and slow decline if you like but he seems to be out the other side now.

Then 3 months ago Dad died and it's brought my brother and I closer together in a way but I've had to take on the supportive role I've always had to.

DP is a relatively new addition (met him in April so he never met my dad) and anyway I was talking about a holiday we are having at the end of this week - just a 3 day break - and I mentioned maybe my brother would like to come and he went absolutely nuclear at me. Said he was sick of hearing about it, he felt pushed out of this shared history (never met my dad or my mum of course) and while he was at it my house looks like a bloody shrine (!)

I of course started crying and he did calm down then and said sorry sorry sorry but if we were going to move forward he had to admit he really dislikes my brother and he thought at first it was cause brother was grieving but he just dislikes him.

I don't know, I can't just leave my brother to it but I can't choose between my brother and DP either. And I'm so pushed for time anyway!

Any suggestions?

[AskBasil]

". Don't let the needs of these two adult males stop you exploring and expressing your own feelings and grief in a healthy way."

Yes yes yes yes yes. Please put yourself first. Don't feel that either your DB or your DP has to come first right now. You have the right to put yourself first.

[AttentionSeekingFantasist]

xpost with MsJupiter, who said it better!

[AskBasil]

Evil incarnate is a very low bar ASF.

I think the OP (and everyone else) can aspire to better than just not evil incarnate tbh.

[cankles]

You lost your father 3 months ago, that's such a short time ago. You are building a better relationship with your brother who sounds like he needs support (he also needs to build a life for himself but that will take a bit of time).

Your dp sounds incredibly frustrated with your situation. You haven't been together very long and I would have imagined that a conversation about the break wouldn't have been difficult to have with you? Not a row?? I think your dp's behaviour sounds possessive.

What are your alternatives - could this drive a wedge between you and your brother?
How much contact with your brother are you willing to sacrifice to keep dp happy?
How much are you willing to sacrifice in general to keep dp happy??

I imagine that this is a really difficult time to be making any kind of decisions, dp isn't really helping is he?

[Sunna]

He sounds horrible. You can do better.

[sunbathe]

Sorry for your loss.

It could be that your support is too generous and your brother needs to be left to stand on his own (social) two feet sometimes?

I also think expecting to go on a romantic weekend away just with your girlfriend is not unreasonable.

[LatteLoverLovesLattes]

Chumrun - You aren't listening, not to us and more importantly, not to him :(

You are excusing some bloody awful behaviour because he was quick to say sorry?! He might be genuinely sorry, but if he is, he's genuinely sorry he has shown you his true colors.

You have been going out with him a few weeks, your Dad died part way through that and he's complaining that your house is a shrine and he's fed up of hearing about?!

I mentioned maybe my brother would like to come and he went absolutely nuclear at me

A decent, loving, nice person wouldn't have gone nuclear. They would have said 'Oh, yeah, maybe he would - but you know what, if you don't mind, I'd much rather we went on our own this time. I'd like to spend some time together, alone. Is that OK with you?'

Said he was sick of hearing about it, he felt pushed out of this shared history (never met my dad or my mum of course) and while he was at it my house looks like a bloody shrine (!)

Your Dad died three months ago, 3 short months.

This guy is showing you who he is - LISTEN.

[LatteLoverLovesLattes]

sunbathe - Do you think the way he 'went nuclear' when she simply said her brother might like to join them was acceptable? Do you think him saying he's fed up of hearing about her family is acceptable? Do you think him saying her house looks like a shrine (3 months after her Dad died) is acceptable? She has been seeing him a few weeks - a few weeks?

[CarbeDiem]

I can see why he wasn't happy about the holiday suggestion to be fair.

That said he has absolutely no right to belittle whatever shrine or otherwise that you have to your parents or your relationship with your brother.
I find the voicing of the disliking of your brother VERY rude and child like. As adults we encounter people that we maybe don't like or don't connect with, they can be within our own families but most people get on with it and simply choose not to spend too much time around them - why does he think it's acceptable to tell you this. A simple - 'he's not my cup of tea' would have done.

Your brother is still probably reeling from losing your dad, as are you so it's understandable to want to spend time together and worry about each other. Over time he may not want to be around you as much so will stop asking to come out with you etc.. but there's no time limit on grief. Your bf sounds like an uncaring selfish arse. I don't think I'd forgive him.

[sunbathe]

Latte, I don't know how I'd react if, after 16 weeks of seeing my bil (in my case), every time I went out with dh, dh then suggested taking him on our romantic break away.

I'd probably be really upset.

[LatteLoverLovesLattes]

sunbathe - her Dad just died. She is grieving. She mentioned her brother might like to come. Dickhead went nuclear. Saying, 'Look - I'd really like us to spend some time togther, on our own, please don't invite your brother' is one thing - going nuclear is another entirely. Would you 'go nuclear' at your partner or friend who has just lost her Dad, her second parent and is grieving, whilst supporting and worrying about her brother as well?

[TinyDancingHoofer]

You can't be that close to your brother if you are unwilling to choose between him and someone you've known four months.
Although suggesting he go on your mini break is a bit odd, you should still be in the honeymoon- lots of sex-period with dp rather than nice days out with the family period.

[Aradia]

Massive red flags all over this one OP, seriously. A good man would not have said what this man did, you only lost your dad 3 months ago ffs! If you ditch your brother over him it would be a massive mistake. Controlling and nasty, i would be running for the hills if a man said stuff like that about my family. There are better men out there, don't sell yourself short!

[magoria]

Fuck me your 'DP' is upset and feels pushed out because your parent died 3 months ago. What an unlucky sod that this upsetting event is nothing to do with him.

His attitude towards your brother doesn't bode well for him being happy even if you go and see your brother alone at any time in the future.

And WTF does your house looking like a shrine mean? He didn't just limit himself to being upset about your brother he decided to have a go at you as well. That was a really nasty remark.

Do you feel you now need to put away any pictures? No longer mention your family?

Yes he may have just wanted a nice weekend with you and thought ffs there is nothing wrong at all with that. But there were ways of discussing this that don't include going nuclear and then going on about other stuff.

I don't see him improving in a relationship over time when he is like this so early.

[fifi669]

Fair enough not wanting brother to tag along. Fair enough not liking him and not wanting to spend more time than is necessary with him.

But.... Going nuclear over the suggestion? Complaining about your past history (which no one can change)? The shrine comment.... Jesus.... He's not sounding like a keeper to me

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Family comes first

Welcome to your new life, OP. Whether you ditch the "D"P or not you have some hard decisions to make.

[AskBasil]

I don't actually agree that family comes first. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. OP I think you need to separate the issue of the neediness of your DB and how much support you give him and are willing to give him, from the issue of your DP's unacceptable behaviour.

Even if he was absolutely in the right about your DB (something I'd quibble with), his sense of entitlement about getting you to prioritise his wishes rather than respecting the position you're in atm, really should be ringing alarm bells for you.

It may be that you would benefit from counselling to help you balance your wish to support your DB with your need to pursue a life which cannot possibly involve him in every event in that life; and also to help you understand why you seem to think that it's reasonable to prioritise the concerns of a man you've known for a matter of weeks, over your long term family relationships and your own welfare.

The fact that you don't see just how outrageous your DP's behaviour is, is possibly something you need some help with. It's up to you if you choose to ignore the really clear signals this man is sending you, but for your own sake I hope you don't. Don't underestimate what a tough time you're going through atm and it's indicative tht this guy is pushing his agenda at a time when you're feeling vulnerable and he should be deferring to you.

I hope you work it out the best way for you.

[EllaFitzgerald]

I think you have a rather large problem with both of these men in your life. Both sound like they have huge problems and both seem to be taking advantage of your vulnerability.

I do understand why you'd feel protective of your brother, but you are not responsible for the situation he's found himself in. If you're going out in a big group, then invite him along and tell your partner that there are enough people there that he doesn't have to spend a great deal of time with him. If it's just you and your partner, then you must tell your brother that it's a date and that it wouldn't be appropriate. I understand why your partner would want to spend time with just you and that he'd be looking forward to a romantic break away without your brother, especially if he's not keen on him.

However, that's where my sympathy for your partner stops. Instead of sitting you down and having a conversation, he chose to 'go nuclear' at you. Instead of understanding that you've suffered two huge, and recent, losses, he verbally attacks you for having your house like a shrine. There is such a red flag here that it may as well have fireworks, sirens and a big brass band marching along in front of it.

I completely believe that you saw a genuine apology and that he was truly sorry for what he said. Not sorry because he hurt you, but because he didn't want you to see the side of him that he's kept hidden until now.

He's jealous of the shared history you have with your family?! That's truly frightening. As others have said, he's telling you loud and clear who he is. Please please listen. You're 32. Don't waste your precious life trying to pretend that you didn't exist before he came along. How long will it be before he doesn't like your friends? Or doesn't like the clothes you wear? Or doesn't like the job you do?

[Nanny0gg]

DP is getting a rough deal from other posters, I think. Relationship of 4 months, looking forward to romantic holiday which involves getting partner away from stress and grief, then abruptly faced with prospect of a 3rd party tagging along. Shrine comment wasn't nice, and maybe OP just doesn't have time to nurture a romantic relationship right now, but it doesn't sound to me like he's evil incarnate.

^^This.

I'm sorry for your brother, but he is a grown man, not a child and he cannot be your responsibility.

Most of my female friends think he is sweet and feel sorry for him

Again, he is a grown man, not a puppy.

Does he work? If not, why not? By all means encourage him to widen his social circle.

Your DP likes you. As many posters on here will confirm, you don't have to like the family, although it certainly a plus if you do.

You need to have a proper conversation with your boyfriend (do you really think he's your partner yet?) and see what you both expect and want from this relationship.
Then take it from there,

[Nomama]

he's stuck at home while I am living the life of Riley

OK. Sod any pondering over the DP, he may or may not have a point. He certainly has a right to be pissed off that his new GF wants her DB to tag along on what he probably imagined would be a nice romantic break for you both - including taking you out of your usual grief filled surroundings. Forget that for a while... he can wait.

he's stuck at home while I am living the life of Riley
Staying indoors is his choice. The life of Riley is called living, moving on after grief. You are not only allowed to do it, you are expected to do it. Don't feel guilty because you feel able to continue with your own life.

I know it is hard but you MUST step back from your DB. Not abandon him or ignore him, but disconnect your life from his current existence. You are not responsible for him or his happiness. You are only responsible for your and yours. Do not put your life on hold until he has got his act together. He may never do it, you may be enabling him by trying to help, there are all sorts of reasons, doubts, whys and wherefores. NONE OF WHICH are down to you.

Now, back to DP. Do you want to go on holiday with him alone, romantically? Do your want your brother along, or do you just feel guilty? You can, and should, disconnect the two. They don't have to like each other, unless you expect DP to live with both you and your brother....

[chumrun]

Thanks for replies.

I think my response is different because I know just how difficult my brother is to people who don't know him. DP has had to put up with a lot from brother and me. Nothing too terrible but (for instance) got completely drunk after the funeral. Couldn't be left safely (worried about him trying to attempt to take his life.) so we had to cancel a holiday. End of the world - no. But I get how it's an explosion of frustration rather than nastiness.

"Scared to be alone" - hardly! One thing about losing your mum at 15 is you learn a LOT about independence!

And I'm obviously not choosing between DP and brother but wondering how I'm supposed to see both, work full time, work part time and volunteer and see friends. It's easier to an extent if I can combine the first two and the last one.

I'm not interested in counselling but thanks - it would be one more thing to fit into already busy days!

[araiba]

Does your house look like a shrine?

Does brother live with you?

Maybe boyfriend was trying to give you a nice relaxing break away from everything to help you.

Not sure I would want a smackhead coming on holiday with me and partner either

[Tikimon]

Your brother seems to be a big part of your life. Your partner is new.

If he's making you choose already only 4 months in, he's only going to get worse.

If you like him, keep an eye on it. It's not a big deal to go on a holiday with just your partner. I think I'd be upset if DH invited family on our vacation together when I was looking forward to spending time alone with him.

It's the fact he just doesn't like your brother, like it's irredeemable, that's a problem.

[shellsandshinythings]

I don't think that you can realistically expect any new partner to want to spend a lot of time with your brother. Although there are good reasons, your brother seems difficult, and any new partner is going to want time to get to know you on your own too.

I'd be pretty upset if DP invited his sister on our romantic getaway. I'd probably also be a bit annoyed if we had to cancel a holiday to look after her because she was drunk, although there are severe extenuating circumstances here.

I don't know. You seem pretty sure that his response is infact reasonable, so maybe you need to revisit your expectations and how much you can really dedicate to a relationship and your brother. If you don't have time for both, you'll have to decide how to divide it up.

[Ketchuphidestheburntbits]

Has your DP ever lost someone in his immediate family? At best, I don't think he understands that you and your brother are still grieving for your Dad and it can be a long process. At worst, your DP is nasty and won't ever be supportive towards you as he has no compassion or kindness. OP what is the truth here? Is he a horrible person or is he just a bit thoughtless and immature?