To sleep train my three year old

[wishmynamewasdave]

I realise this is a contentious issue, I'm genuinely looking for both arguments for older children.

I've always previously gone down the gentle route - fed her to sleep until she was two, cuddled/sung to sleep till now. Still wakes in the night, used to come in our bed a lot (co-slept when she was younger).
Tonight was just ridiculous though. She refused to go to sleep without me next to her singing. Every time I tried to move away she would scream the place down for me.

She won't let my husband settle her.
I also have an right month old that wakes hourly due to a massive sleep regression.

I was all set for the 'wait it out' method. But tonight seems to have been all about control, not comfort. It's making me angry, and she's an absolute terror in the day if she gets no sleep. She needs more sleep.

So... am I being unreasonable?

Yes definatly agree the earlier you do it the easier it is. We were at the end of our tether by 16 months and we had a new born too.

Would definatly advocate starting earlier.

goes to find time machine

I know people are trying to be helpful but really telling a parent of a 3 year old that doesn't sleep through that she should have done cc earlier? Unless the op has a time machine I fail to see how that helps.

My dd1 was a brilliant sleeper. Fell asleep on her own from a newborn, slept through from 4 months, goes to bed like a dream and never wakes up unless she is ill. Wow, didn't I do a fantastic parenting job?! It is a shame that dd2 is 3.5 and from being 13 months has woken up practically every night. Parenting fail with her.

Op I've no magic solution but we have some success with bribery which helps for say 10 nights, she'll still wake up , we remind her what the reward is for sleeping her in own bed and she goes back to sleep most of the time.

Ah, cross posts there!

Have you tried a gro-clock?

My 2y7m DD is still cuddled / fed to sleep at bed time (takes 10 minutes on no nap day, I don't mind) and 85% of the nights knows to then stay in her room until the sunshine is out...

we have it at 6h15 in the week (same as our alarm as it would not be fair to have her in her room when we are up and showering) and 7h in the weekend (with plans to put it later to 7h30 or more...)

Even when it doesn't work it's better as when the sunchine is out she barges into our room singing "Sunshine is out" very happily, and when she comes beforehand she is quiet and sheepish and asks for cuddle or something...

Might work...

Op wasn't having a go at you re not starting sleep training earlier. Of course not.

However threads do widen to general discussion and was just agreeing with a previous poster about starting earlier.

Of course not criticising you in the slightest. It really is bloody tough.

Still think the tough love works though at any age but it's easier the earlier you do it.

Not convinced starting earlier helps if your child is a genuine bad sleeper. We tried sleep training at lots of earlier ages and it didn't work (see previous post re returning child to bed 100s of times a night). It was only once DS was old enough to understand reason that we saw results.

I would imagine (a la Super Nanny) if the child has just got into bad habits/never learnt to go to sleep themselves, that these strategies do work.

In our case "sleep training" is a bit of a misnomer as we didn't train DS to sleep, we just trained him not to wake everyone else up when he woke up.

He is still (age 10) a bad sleeper (needs much less sleep than a child his age is supposed to, frequently wakes at night, wakes up early). I know one other parent who also had a genuine bad sleeper as a baby and she sees the same pattern.

I can't tell from OP's post whether her child is a genuine bad sleeper, or just needs "teaching" how to go to sleep when he wakes in the night though. I was giving my worst case scenario, because "everyone" telling you that you can fix a problem in a few days (and programmes like SuperNanny who proceed to do just that) just make you feel like an even more shit parent when it doesn't happen for you.

(DD with same parenting = fabulous sleeper btw )

The great thing about three year old is that unlike babies they can tell you what is wrong, and understand what you are saying them.

So I think that before you take action, you need top talk and find out what her problems/worries at night are, and let her know that the situation at the moment is leaving you tired and grumpy, and that things need to change.

Then you can all work out a way for things to change that meets everyone's needs.

I waited it out with a few tweaks, but there are so many gentle gentle options for a 3 year old that you will almost certainly find something that works fairly soon.

I think it's not do much teaching/making the child sleep it's stopping them waking you up.

No one should make anyone feel like a shit parent because as soon as you are smug life bites you on the arse.

Totally respect views that sleep training is best done older but I think it does depend on your situation too.

If you are a sahm with 2 littlies like my first parenting days then it's not so bad.

Fast forward 9 years with two older ones who needed to sleep to get through school and 2 littlies and working full time then gentle sleep training until 3 just wasn't feasible.

Kids do have to fit into the family situation they are born I
Into.

Horses for courses no right or wrong just survival.

Hope things get better op.

moresnowplease

Redsky mentioned that she felt the pressure from programmes like suppernanny suggested parents could quick fix their child's problems and so if they can't in 3 days they feel like shit parents.

I was agreeing with her.

Ok?! We are all supporting each other here I hope?

I think you will find it incredibly hard - a good friend of mine has two children who have never slept through the night - in my view she is just not tough enough with them . One of them is now 11 and they still come into their parents room most nights and end up sleeping on the floor.

My friend hasn't had a proper night's sleep in all that time (of course any suggestion that she leaves them with her DH or close relatives for a night just wouldn't happen; & she would never allow them to go on a sleepover). To be honest I have run out of sympathy as I don't think she is doing her children any favours in the long run - goodness knows what will happen if there is a school trip.

I don't know what the answer is - personally I did cc at a very young age and my DS has always slept very well, and in his own bed - but I suppose he might have done that without the sleep training anyway.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

You sometimes have to be tough with them though (and yourself by ignoring any tantrums). If you crumble and go to them, give cuddles and bring them into your own bed, they know they can get their own way by crying and start to manipulate you. If you just grit your teeth and leave them to cry it out, then they soon learn that it isn't going to get them anywhere and ease off the crying unless they are in genuine distress.

I wonder if she doesn't like the dark? When DD was a baby her room was kept pitch dark, but around the 3yo mark she started saying she wanted it lighter, so we leave the landing light on (right outside her door) and her door open at bedtime, and make the sure the CD player in her room is left on all night as the digital display makes quite a good night light. Might that be it?

If she comes in our room in the night at least 50% of the time she falls asleep in our bed and after a few mins we take her back, otherwise if she's still awake we take her back and then doze on the sofa in her room. And when we leave her room we always say we'll be back in a little while which is a complete lie.

I think you need to work on her going to sleep on her own first, that makes it easier to deal with any night waking ime.

Maybe new rules, 2 songs then leave her room to do something, go back 5 mins later etc.

She is old enough at 3 to understand and know that it's bed time and to understand if you implement a change to the bed time routine. She may not like it at first but she will be fine

Hello we did sleep training recently and I didnt go near her, let dh do everything and its worked.

Gro-clock is already implemented with the rule she can come in when the sun comes on - until then she has to settle in her own bed. I also did a lot of the 'I'll be right back" and "Mummy and a Daddy are still listening out for you" there's even a small hole between our walls which I've told her we use to make sure she's fine.
I've spoken to her - not unsurprisingly given I've already said I'm a fairly 'gentle' parent. That shed no light on why she wakes/woke/wouldn't go back to sleep/wouldn't let me leave.
It's a control thing.
Her baby brother started crawling two days ago - strongly suspect it is linked.