To be angry there is so little response to anti semitism and the rise of extremism in Europe?

[VampireSquid]

A quick look at news sites shows an Athens holocaust memorial has been defaced, eight French synagogues attacked, shops have been burnt in a section of Paris with a large Jewish community, cars have been attacked. In Netherlands, there was an ISIS March, including chants of death to the Jews. In Germany, someone has been allegedly arrested for incitement, for yelling 'Heil Hitler'. A Dutch Jew had his house firebombed. In January, people were giving the Nazi salute en masse. A Belgian shop banned Jews from entering. French Jews are fleeing while they feel they still can. A Hungarian ambassador has publicly says Jews enslave mankind, and called them servants of Satan. Berlin has people chanting 'Jews, Jews, cowardly pigs!' and people have been heard, at pro Palestine demonstrations, chanting 'Jews to the gas chambers'.

How are people ignoring this?

[VampireSquid]

Iirc there are about 260-70,000 Jews (I will google after, but I think I'm near?) so not that meagre, really.

[larrygrylls]

I find the justification of anti semitism on this thread more perturbing than the extremist attacks the op is publicising. It seems a lot of mainstream posters see anti semitism as reasonable and are justifying it on the basis of a middle eastern conflict which most of them understand poorly.

Israel was the result of profound anti semitism, which seems to be rearing its ugly head again. The history if the Jewish people is a history of the dispossessed. My grandfather left Russia after one of many numerous pogroms (well before Israel existed), one of my mother's friends fled Berlin with the clothes on his back pre Second World War. My mother lived in southern France for ten years and experienced plenty of casual anti semitism. And, when I was at cambridge uni a (non racist) friend used the phrase 'he jewed me' to mean he was cheated, without thinking of the meaning.

If anti semitism is on the rise (and if seems if is). It needs to be confronted, not excused, unless Europe wants to lose its Jews.

[TheTravellingLemon]

vampire the number of Jews in this country varies according to how you identify. Self identifying (most commonly used) jews number around 290,000.

[JazzAnnNonMouse]

Why is anti semitism even a thing? I don't get it - is it religion based or race based?

[Pinkrose1]

There has not been one single person on this thread justifying anti semitism. Everyone, including me, has condemned it in all it's forms, casual and overt.

If you check statistics there have been roughly the same number of racist attacks on Pakistani Muslims per head of the population in the uk (proportionately).

Doesn't make any of it right.

[VampireSquid]

Thanks! According to wiki, that number includes secular Jews too who are also faced with anti semitism so much more accurate! Apparently there are 263,000 Jews who self identified on the 2011 BUT secular Jews might not have put that down and some practicing Jews would also not have put it down (apparently especially Haredi Jews).

Still, judging it meagre from 63mil is definitely inaccurate as most of the population will not be at risk of anti semitism, the rates should be judged in comparison with the population of Jews.

[specialsubject]

Jazz now that is a very interesting question!

As I see it, the 'oldest hatred' has many reasons - not justifications, of course. Part of it is that we are programmed to dislike anyone different, and the Jews have a history of looking different and keeping themselves to themselves (which of course if everyone hates you, you would)

there is the 'you killed Jesus' thing which still comes up and can still be heard in some playgrounds. There's the blood libel, which would be laughable if it hadn't caused so much hatred. There's the childish jealousy of people who work hard and make money, which is also suffered by the Asian community, especially those that run the 'corner shops'. Finance and moneylending have been Jewish occupations for centuries, and this again generates jealousy.

It perpetuates down the generations. Even Hitler didn't think up his hatred of Jews for himself.

Why we are programmed to hate each other is beyond me.

[larrygrylls]

Pink rose,

On a thread about anti semitism, bringing up the amount if attacks on Pakistani Moslems is derailing and distracting.

[wafflyversatile]

No it's not.

[VampireSquid]

Of course it isn't right pinkrose

Should I mention everything? People in receipt of benefits being discriminated against and abused? Eastern Europeans and how they are being treated in this country? Women and sexism? Black British people and police discrimination and racially motivated attacks? LGBT people and the discrimination and violence many are subjected to? Ageism? Hindu/Muslim tensions in certain communities?

They are all problems and all significant, I don't have to discuss all of them at once, although they are noticed, without caring about them.

[VampireSquid]

Next time someone brings up sexism and misogyny on MN, I will say 'why aren't you discussing anti semitism?' If I see a thread talking about Islamophobia, I will ask why they aren't talking about Jews, after all proportionately, they are facing the same amount of attacks.

[VampireSquid]

Only I won't because discussing one community's struggles does not mean other people's problems are not important.

[wafflyversatile]

Your own title says '...and the rise of extremism'.

I think it's relevant as context.

If someone started a thread about sexism and someone drew valid comparisons to other isms then I don't see that as a derail or distraction.

[VampireSquid]

I would say people have been justifying anti semitism, or perpetuating it.

E.g. 'the holocaust card'. Although what happened in the Holocaust must not be used to justify further violence and might not be seen as relevant, calling it the holocaust card is dismissive and offensive. It is not a card people use at pleasure, it is the deaths of millions of people, and for many Jews, the deaths of ancestors and relatives. (I would say the same about the use of 'race card'.)

Or 'Therefore my sympathies are with the underdog, the Palestinians. And therefore Jews who are not in Israel influence and support its behavior so people are anti-Semitic to Jews who do not live in Israel.'

Two examples of anti semitism on this thread.

[cricketpitch]

No-one is ignoring it, or justifying it. I am certainly not.
I do what I can when I can. If I see it I will call people on it - as I will with any form of horrible behaviour. I will protest too.

I object to the implication that I and others are "not responding" to one type of extreme racism/prejudice. There are plenty of people trying to "respond" to an extremist culture that threatens tolerance and peace in the country, (world), we live in.

[runes]

AmIIndecisive Is it ok for Henry Siegman, former Zionist and President of the US/Middle East Project, to make a lot of the points that have been raised by other posters or would he be accused of antisemitism? m.democracynow.org/stories/14539

[runes]

Disclaimer. I am not an anti semite or trying to derail. All persecution based on race, gender religion, ethnicity etc is wrong. Just wanted to challenge all's diatribe against us idiots who are falling for the wrong propaganda

[runes]

AmIIndecisive's

[AmIIndecisive]

Ok I am out and cannot read the link you have posted, but if he is saying that Jewish people, not Israelis, in some way deserve a backlash of anti semitism because of what is going on in Gaza, then yes I would accuse him if being anti semetic (whether he is Jewish or not!)

Judaism and Zionism are NOT the same thing.

[runes]

Of course he doesn't say that He very clearly explains why most of the pro Israeli sentiment in your previous posts is nonsense.

[Pinkrose1]

By pointing out my use of the holocaust card (something also pointed out by another poster without the 'card' reference) you are doing exactly that.

Israel was created because zionists declared they would never be subjected to this type of thing again.

(1948) ^"The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the comity of nations.

Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland."^

Nobody would deny them this right to a homeland but it is this statement that the holocaust would never happen again if they had their own state which has left the world to turn a blind eye to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Who would ever, after seeing the horror of Belsen, deny Israel had a right to exist? To take land, to set up a state? After all there were nothing but a bunch of foreign looking Arabs there. The Jews look like regular Europeans after all. Israeli politicians through the years have repeated mentioned the holocaust as a reason for the 'defence' of 'its' borders. And as soon as the H word came out the room is silenced.

The collective guilt, including Britains, of the holocaust is pulled out time and again. Only now I think, with the war a distant memory, are people really seeing the harshness of the treatment to the Palestinians and how intrinsically unjust it it.

DH always said when the other side come down to name calling they have lost the argument. So I'm out

[larrygrylls]

Anyone want to chat about Jordan's treatment of the Palestinians? After all, most of Palestine was trans-Jordan, which is now Jordan. No? Thought not.

In any event, I am tired of the 'I am not an anti Semite', 'no racism is tolerable but....' Defences of anti semitism. It needs condemnation with no qualifications or comparisons. As a racial Jew, even though non practising, I starting to feel quite uncomfortable.

[runes]

larrygrylls pathetic whataboutery see owen jones link owenjonesramblings.tumblr.com/post/93010045984/the-whataboutery-of-israels-defenders

The Henry Siegman interviews also make great reading.

[VampireSquid]

I wouldn't care less about any comments on your part about the holocaust. But the 'card' bit is, I believe, anti Semitic.

[Springheeled]

Explain how?