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AIBU?

To be angry there is so little response to anti semitism and the rise of extremism in Europe?

151 replies

VampireSquid · 31/07/2014 13:11

A quick look at news sites shows an Athens holocaust memorial has been defaced, eight French synagogues attacked, shops have been burnt in a section of Paris with a large Jewish community, cars have been attacked. In Netherlands, there was an ISIS March, including chants of death to the Jews. In Germany, someone has been allegedly arrested for incitement, for yelling 'Heil Hitler'. A Dutch Jew had his house firebombed. In January, people were giving the Nazi salute en masse. A Belgian shop banned Jews from entering. French Jews are fleeing while they feel they still can. A Hungarian ambassador has publicly says Jews enslave mankind, and called them servants of Satan. Berlin has people chanting 'Jews, Jews, cowardly pigs!' and people have been heard, at pro Palestine demonstrations, chanting 'Jews to the gas chambers'.

How are people ignoring this?

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Pinkrose1 · 01/08/2014 21:45

Half drunk. I didn't say they were occupied (West Bank and Gaza) in 1947 but that was the only areas left for the Palestinians not occupied. But since that time they have made steady incursions into those remaining areas, building settlements all the while Sad

Soon there will be no land left apart from desert for the Palestinians which is what the Israeli government want. Already there are thousands or refugees camped out in neighbouring States such as Jordan.

Spring... My sentiments exactly. Desperately sad for the Palestinians but what can we do? I'm a bit disgusted that other rich Arab States do not appear to help or care, but that side of the political argument I'm in the car about, so no doing there are reasons and I expect it's something to do with keeping America sweet because of oil?

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 21:52

What is happening to the Palestinians is abhorrent, but how is it relevant to this thread?

Dione I think we need everyone to be more aware! And I think we need more pressure to separate Israel from anti semitism. This thread alone proves it...would a thread about hate crimes committed by Islamophobes descend into discussion about what must be done to stop ISIS?

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Pinkrose1 · 01/08/2014 21:54

Car? No but I am in the dark!

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 21:56

Update on anti semitism- teen Jew punched in the face in Berlin, for being Jewish. He is 18. Same age as one of my brothers, and being assaulted for his beliefs ffs.

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Mintyy · 01/08/2014 21:56

How awful!

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JazzAnnNonMouse · 01/08/2014 21:58

I hadn't heard of any of this anti semitism, are the news just not reporting it? For what reason if so?

It's sad and quite scary

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DioneTheDiabolist · 01/08/2014 22:03

Yes OP, it would.Sad. We have quite a few Islamophobic MNetters who have no qualms about saying so.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:04

Here is a rough round up, including some things I've posted, some things I haven't, from a (not mainstream) online newspaper:

Across Europe, anti-Israel rallies are including distinct displays of anti-Semitism, from synagogues being attacked to Jewish-owned stores being vandalized and to Jews citizens being threatened and told they are not welcome.

In Berlin, police had to step in to protect an Israeli tourist couple at the weekend after protestors turned on them when they spotted the man’s yarmulke. Demonstrators reportedly charged towards the couple shouting “Jew! We’ll get you!”

In Paris, hundreds of protestors have attacked synagogues, smashed the windows of Jewish shops and cafes, and set several alight, including a kosher grocery store which reportedly burned to the ground.

In the Netherlands, the home of the chief rabbi has been attacked with stones twice in one week.

According to the Anti-Defamation League which has been tracking the incidents, a protester in Lyon, France, hit a Jewish teen in the head and yelled, “I want to kill all the Jews.” He was arrested.

In Zurich, the ADL reported, demonstrators chanted, “Jews into the sea!”

On Saturday, in Sarcelles, France, anti-Israel protesters threw a Molotov cocktail toward a synagogue and burned a Jewish-owned mini-market.

Berlin police spokeswoman Cosima Pauluhn told the Associated Press that an investigation was launched after Imam Abu Bilal Ismail of the Al-Nur mosque said last week that Jews should be killed.

The mosque did not return the news service’s calls seeking comment.

More violent language was used in Italy, not by a Muslim leader but by a philosopher and politician, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported, who said he would like to personally kill Israelis and that he was beginning a fundraiser to buy Hamas more bombs to help him do so.

Gianni Vattimo, who is also a former member of the European Parliament, told Radio 24, “I’d like to shoot those bastard Zionists.”

Asked if he would like to see more Israelis killed, Vattimo said: “Of course!”

Later, he added that “unfortunately can’t really shoot” because he was exempted from military service, Haaretz reported.

In explaining why he wanted to raise money for more Hamas bombs, Vattimo said Hamas is “fighting with toy rockets that don’t really kill anyone.” He also suggested Europeans form military units to fight alongside Hamas, like volunteers fought in the Spanish civil war.

He described Israel as “a bit worse than the Nazis.”

On Wednesday, a Belgian watchdog on anti-Semitism filed a complaint with a local mayor after finding a cafe was displaying a sign that said no Jews were allowed in.

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported that the Belgian League Against Anti-Semitism, or LBCA, said that the signs were in Turkish and French at a cafe in the town of Saint-Nicolas.

The text read, according to JTA, “Dogs are allowed in this establishment but Jews are not under any circumstances.”

A Palestinian flag, a keffiyeh and an Israeli flag with a red “X” were also in the window of the cafe.

Last week, JTA also reported on a shop owner in Antwerp who would not sell a visibly Jewish woman clothes “out of protest.”

JTA reported that nine synagogues in France have been attacked since Israel launched Operation Protective Edge two weeks ago following a major escalation in rocket attacks against Israel.

To address the hostile atmosphere, European foreign ministers have now stepped in.

“Anti-Semitic rhetoric and hostility against Jews, attacks on people of Jewish belief and synagogues have no place in our societies,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius and Italian Foreign Minister Federica Mogherini said in a joint statement Tuesday.

While they respected the right to freedom of speech, they said they would do everything possible to combat “acts and statements that cross the line to anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia.”

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Wednesday lambasted the anti-Semitic displays.

“The chancellor and the entire German government condemn the anti-Semitic remarks made at pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli demonstrations in Germany in the strongest terms,” Merkel’s spokesman told reporters. “The chancellor and the entire government welcome the revival of Jewish life in Germany and will continue to stand up for the security of Jewish citizens.”

“We have reached a new level of hatred and violence in all of Europe that cannot even be compared to the anti-Semitism seen during previous conflicts in Israel,” Stephan Kramer, director of the European office on anti-Semitism of the American Jewish Committee in Brussels, told the AP.

Evidence of the anti-Semitic, not only anti-Israel, nature of the protests was seen in the slogans chanted by protesters and locations of protests. In several cities, synagogues, not Israeli embassies or consulates were targeted.

“They are not screaming ‘Death to the Israelis’ on the streets of Paris. They are screaming ‘Death to the Jews,’” Roger Cukierman of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France told the Telegraph.

Cukierman has also expressed the fear of “pogroms.”

The Telegraph reported that 14 were arrested in the German city of Essen on suspicion they were planning to attack the city’s Old Synagogue.

The British paper further noted that there have been reports of German protesters chanting “Jews to the gas chambers.”

Police in Berlin have banned the slogan, “Jew, Jew, cowardly pig, come out and fight alone.”

Israel’s ambassador to Germany Yakov Hadas-Handelsman likened the recent events to the atmosphere in Nazi Germany.

“They pursue the Jews in the streets of Berlin…as if we were in 1938,” Hadas-Handelsman wrote in the Berliner Zeitung newspaper. “And if it continues, I fear that it is only a matter of time before innocent blood will be spilled.”

I posted this on another thread about extremism which descended into mainly posts discussing Israel/Gaza. When I read the bit about Vattimo I was sure it was made up, it seemed completely ridiculous, like he was a caricature of anti Semites or something? But unfortunately not.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:05

I don't know Dione but I agree about the islamophobes. It makes me shudder sometimes.

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edamsavestheday · 01/08/2014 22:10

The Times of Israel today pulled a blog calling for genocide. Of the Palestinians.

I don't even know where to begin with that one.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:17

Good for the times of Israel pulling it, I suppose. Horrific. It's only connection with anti semitism is how horrifying and disgusting it is, though. It is as relevant as me quoting what is happening to e.g. Christians in Iran on a thread about Islamophobia, although not on the same scale of course.

How can someone see someone and want them dead because they are Jewish or Palestinian or gay, or 'other'? Sad

Every swastika is a call to and support for genocide.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:18

And I would say more about the blog (along the lines of what does the blogger think Israel is trying to do right now?) but on a thread discussing the Gaza situation.

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doziedoozie · 01/08/2014 22:25

My views are that Israel can only behave as it does without UN intervention, or another country's intervention, because it has the support of the USA. I believe it has the support of the USA because of the many rich and powerful Jews who are American and who fund and support Israel.

Therefore my sympathies are with the underdog, the Palestinians. And therefore Jews who are not in Israel influence and support its behavior so people are anti-Semitic to Jews who do not live in Israel.

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Pinkrose1 · 01/08/2014 22:34

I do understand your distress and it is perfectly valid, but even added together these incidents, in the grand scheme of things, are quite isolated. That is not to minimise them, it is still disgusting that these things occur but easily an equivalent number of islamophibic incidences occur. In Africa homophobic incidences occur daily. It is bad, all bad but to say its nothing to do with the Israeli conflict is wrong. Your own quotes confirm that

We have reached a new level of hatred and violence in all of Europe that cannot even be compared to the anti-Semitism seen during previous conflicts in Israel,” Stephan Kramer, director of the European office on anti-Semitism of the American Jewish Committee in Brussels, told the AP

The repeated 'Israeli conflicts' are causing the problem.

Maybe if the Israeli government realised their actions impacted on Jewish people throughout the world they would rein themselves in. But they won't because they are hell bent on wiping out the Palestinians. They care about nothing else. Not even the affect on other Jewish people and communities.

If it always comes down to a political debate then it's because AS has become a political weapon against the Israeli government. One they will ignore as they ignore the death and destruction they are causing in Gaza.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:49

What doozie ? How do Jews outside Israel influence and support its behaviour? There's an ultra orthodox group who are anti israel' existence alone, but most of the Jews from DH's side who are practicing- they are Liberal in the main, and a couple are Reform- don't support the slaughter. They are against it completely.

Can you not feel sympathy for both?

Why must they be compared?

They are both horrifying. And there is no doubt that the Palestinians are worse off...but ignoring the early signs can lead to dangerous consequences. Ignoring the rise in anti semitism across Europe is a foolish and dangerous thing to do, imo. How far must it go before Jews are given sympathy? Should some more be killed (4 killed in the Brussels shooting + further deaths in france in the last year, one involved an axe iirc, all anti semtiically motivated), should more French Jews feel they have no choice to leave? My DD was called a p*ki on a bus a bit ago (I'm not even Pakistani, let alone DD) but we're not being slaughtered, so I suppose she can't have any sympathy. That person who's house has burnt down should have no sympathy because they aren't in a situation like the Palestinians.

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ummunono · 01/08/2014 22:52

I believe what is happening in Palestine is perfectly relevant to this discussion because accusing people of being anti-semitic is Israel's traditional way of silencing its critics. I have been on the receiving end of that myself despite being the daughter of a French Jewish Zionist family, and it is a blatant manipulation of history. Europe has always had racist/ anti-semitic/ Islamophobic elements, but I think the large majority of people make the difference between Zionist/ Israeli/ Jew. I haven't heard of the anti-semitic attacks which you describe, but your understanding of what has happened in France is biased at best. It has been well documented online that it is not synagogues that were targeted in Paris, but members of the extremist Jewish group LDJ (banned in America and Israel), who had been taunting and threatening pro-Palestinian supporters on their websites, and were throwing pieces of furniture on the demonstrators. Here is a video of the events :
They even announced that their aim was to get the demonstrations banned, and they succeeded. This is why there are now calls for this group to be banned. The people that you cite, Yakov Hadas-Handelsman or Roger Cukierman, a noted Islamophobe, are hardly objective sources on anti-semitism. Personally I think anger (obviously not physical violence) towards Israel and its supporters (and Israelis in their large majority are supporting Netanyahu) is perfectly justified. Many Jewish groups for peace have joined the protests, so I suppose it's not as bad as you make it sound.

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:54

Yes, and it is a good thing LDJ has been banned of course.

Turkey, a country that for half a millennium earned a record of tolerance for its Jews, now boasts members of parliament who participate in violent demonstrations against the Israeli embassy and a leading singer who proudly tweets, “May God Bless Hitler” and “it will be again Muslims who will bring an end of those Jews, it is near, near.”

A shop that sells Israeli cosmetics reported phone calls threatening to burn down the shop, beat up or kill staff.
One caller threatened: "You would be wiped out right now... if [your owner] puts more videos on Facebook I will f* him up… I will kill you with it."
Another threatens, "I will burn your shop down" and this post was found on the shop owner’s Facebook page, "I hope he burns in hell like the rest of the Jews."

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VampireSquid · 01/08/2014 22:56

How is if biased? A quick google shows the New York Times, the. Independent, the Daily Mail, the Times of Israel (which I will discount as it will be biased!) and the Washington Post alone have reported the attacks on more than one synagogue in Paris.

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wafflyversatile · 01/08/2014 23:16

When tough economic times come aknocking all sorts of prejudice seems to rise. Immigrants, benefit claimants, travellers, jews, muslims, whatever.

some Greek farmers were acquitted of shooting Bangladeshi farm workers this week. They'd demanded several months of backpay be paid to them.

It's vile. And it is encouraged by govt and media. Look at all those programmes about benefit claimants we're getting just now. Why now, and not 5 or 10 years ago?

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Springheeled · 01/08/2014 23:28

Exactly, waffly- we all need to wake up and join the dots. Not play the game of 'othering' each other- a game only the 1% win.

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ummunono · 01/08/2014 23:32

Well it has become apparent that a number of publications, in particular French ones, have a pro-Israeli bias, and I assume some journalists report the events in France by reading French news. It has been reported by the few independent media in France that the events in Barbes and Sarcelles where synagogues were supposedly attacked were PLANNED in advance by the LDJ who dared pro-Palestinians to come to Jewish areas, and unfortunately they were answered by young men as eager to fight as they were. It is regrettable that some casher shops were damaged in the process, but then other non-casher shops were too, as the restaurant in the video I posted above. Strangely that was not deemed newsworthy.
I think some of the comments comparing the situation now to 1930s Germany and the like are absolutely vile. Presumably the police is dealing with occurrences of violence towards Jews (and non-Jews)?

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AmIIndecisive · 01/08/2014 23:56

Very interesting thread, unfortunately, there is a deep sense of anti semitism that I fear has been there all along but this recent conflict has brought it all to the surface and given people an excuse to happily expose their hatred.

I have quite a few Jewish friends and it upsets me so much to hear what people are saying and that many are starting to feel uncomfortable in this country and unsafe, these are people who have lived here all their lives. It is almost a sense of history repeating itself.

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Springheeled · 02/08/2014 00:02

A sense of history repeating itself amiindecisive? In Gaza you mean? Yes, people being killed because of who and what they are is a stain on the humanity of the world.

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AmIIndecisive · 02/08/2014 00:04

Spring heeled - well done, you have in one sentence, perfectly summed up exactly what I was getting at.

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Springheeled · 02/08/2014 00:07

What's that then?

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